I have little to no faith in the power of PoE currently, seriously it's day 1.

Also, how and why does selfvoting exist in mafia; I seriously fail to see it's applications in any useful scenario. The last time I saw it used was BBoy last game and he did it to CLAIM he was scum.

Any other time it's used it's just straight up weird. Anyone explain it's use here? (Sorry I'm still learning mafia apparently).

unvote

removing my vote on Zekks because this is a weird gamestate

Dulcet wrote: 6r4n69

yeah, we do have PRs, but what makes you think Zekks is one and not just vanilla? Just chance?

I think Zekks did a general threat to everyone voting him so i say he should tell us his role before we PL him. Seriously

I'm not playing with an anti-town.

Also, self voting strategy shouldn't be mentioned here. Maybe google it cause we're currently in game and dont want mafia doing anything with that information.

abraker ur doing the same thing i dont think is a town move and im not going to vote you because it's dumb

Hika wrote: 2p2929

Also, self voting strategy shouldn't be mentioned here. Maybe google it cause we're currently in game and dont want mafia doing anything with that information.

Aight, ty anyway.

Eh, I'll just say it's a diversion thing. ^

johnmedina999 wrote: 3r3a6s

There isn't much else to work with right now so I say it's a good option.

Also, I agree with everyone else, if we get nowhere by the end of the mafia day, just lynch Zekks, because there is a 2/9 chance we can be lynching scum, and it's better to lynch someone than not lynch anyone at all.

I don't like this.

Posting in between changing game of The International 7

Foxtrot wrote: 2l233p

Honestly, I don't know. Is PoE any efficient?

No.

abraker wrote: 6cx2d

Well since we can forgive zekks's concerning stupidity, PoE looks sexy as fuck, and I would like to bring my end of the deal, I guess I have no choice either

vote: abraker

Like it will achieve something if you're town. Good game, I'm sticking my vote right now. And it is L-2 with your self-vote.

abraker wrote: 6cx2d

But why John? And why zekks? What were your thoughts between the connection between the two

I want to know your read on everybody here.

As I said already, Zekks alarmed my radar with "idc" post so I particularly need information coming out from him.
When we were discussing things, he is posting his read on me and Foxtrot, which I find "meh", so I asked about John because John involved in the discussion.


I will put this outside of my read because basically this is the most triggering my scumread right now and why I review my leaning town read everytime.
So why is being ive bad? In lack of content and lack of interaction between players, especially town vs scum, scums tend to go with the flow what is going on. Letting town vs town happens and jump on wagon with any reasons when the time is appropriate. It most likely come from newbie who doesn't know what to do, but scum also can pull this.

abraker wrote: 6cx2d

Something that mafia would conveniently bandwagon on without hesitation while giving a non critical reason to.

So what? No one pressure. No one pushing. Waiting more contents. PoE is less accurate thing to find scum, but is there any accurate method to find scum without power role? Is it wrong to use PoE? Why is L-3 (or maybe you thought it was L-2) a dangerous thing for you? even rEdo (plus someone if you really thought it was L-2) doesn't tell explicitly why did he vote you.

Lincolm wrote: 2x5543

If rEdo didn't vote him, I would still vote abraker because he is more active than Zexion.

voting because activity is something I really don't like. Same with inactivity. Your votes seem to have little basis and just go with the bandwagon.

It is so tempting to vote Lincolm or zekks because they have some questionable material on their plate, but it doesn't guarantee scum.


Lincolm: The only problem is that he bandwagons with no real justification. Just declare a bandwagon, he will be second to hop on it
Foxtrot: all actions look very pro town, but can also be scum with excellent acting.
John: all actions look very pro town, with a hint of newbie spicing. If he is scum, we won't be able to tell before day 2
zekks: all actions look dumb town or idiot scum
Dawnsday: all actions look neutral. Actually his posts remind me of mine
rEdo, Zexion, Hika: null


@John
Your reads?

abraker wrote: 6cx2d

Same with inactivity

*Unless it's pushing them to be more active

abraker wrote: 6cx2d

Lincolm: The only problem is that he bandwagons with no real justification. Just declare a bandwagon, he will be second to hop on it

Slight correction: He bandwagons with no real justification, and makes it seem like it is a normal thing to do. I get it if you are trying to choke out activity or info, but it doesn't make sense otherwise.

Going to give my reads and throw a few observations of mine into the mix

Foxtrot: As everyone has said, she looks largely townie. I have no reason not to have the same assumption, I'm weary but given what small meta I know this is likely to be a townie.

Lincolm: His 1v1 with Foxtrot earlygame gives me 2 townies trying to pry vibes. Everything he posts to me looks very very pro town agenda and for now he's a slight townread but this is subject to change moving forward

John: Posts strike me as just a new townie (Same as lincolm), I'm also swayed by his reaction to policy lynching (He's a newb but he understands the townie benefits of PL)

Abraker: Largely null but he's trying to help town, Selfvote earlygame gives me a strong townie vibe from him

Null Zone is Zexion, rEdo, Zekks, Hika

Zexion - Inactive.

rEdo - Not enough content to sway me over but he's more realistically nulltown.

Zekks - I felt like making a "Zekks" zone and putting him in it for the rest of the game, we played irc mafia earlier and he seemed competent as a mafia (he actually won rofl.), his mafia strategy largely entailed parroting the most active townies just enough to stay out of suspicion. But IRC is a different beast to forum so I have no idea how reliable any of it is. He stays in null permanently probably.

Hika - Actually one of my strongest "gut" feelings I've had in a mafia game thus far. Everything Hika posts rubs me the wrong way, I'm going to link specific posts eventually (pressed for time here atm) but a lot of what she posts just FEELS SO "LAMIST" to me, I'm willing to accept I'm probably wrong on this one and I'm just being paranoid but it's a read and I have it so that's that. Keeping in null because there's nothing I have beyond my gut.

abraker wrote: 6cx2d

@John
Your reads?

1. I don't know much about Zexion, or Hika, so I cannot say anything for them.
2. I can't say much about redo either, but due to his last post, I would say he's town, but I'm not too sure.
3. Foxtrot is also town to me, her posts analyze all players very well and she pushes people to give info, I don't think that's associated as scum.
4. As abraker pointed out, they both post similarly, very neutral, very analytic. Personally, I don't like this "poker face" style of play because there is really nothing to analyze; abraker played like this last game as well, and he got lynched, and he flipped town, so I don't know about these two.
   abraker, however, with his self-vote, is starting to flip towards the mafia side, because of the reasons previously posted. I will have my eye on you.
5. Zekks is lazy and may be either town or mafia.
6. Lincolm is leaning towards scum, he is very defensive explaining his actions and doesn't really offer

ng else.[/list]

damn I messed up that list

there was an attempt

Dawnsday wrote: 366838

Hika - Actually one of my strongest "gut" feelings I've had in a mafia game thus far. Everything Hika posts rubs me the wrong way, I'm going to link specific posts eventually (pressed for time here atm) but a lot of what she posts just FEELS SO "LAMIST" to me, I'm willing to accept I'm probably wrong on this one and I'm just being paranoid but it's a read and I have it so that's that. Keeping in null because there's nothing I have beyond my gut.

i'll wait for you to explain this
i think i can confirm that anyone who plays mafia with me always feels as if my posts rub them wrong

so link me my posts and i can explain them to you

also i just think it looks bad on lincolm to vote me after he sees a vote already on me, referring to an earlier page

also ill drop my reads tomorrow. im off work and im going out drinking tonight! will stop by for some small chat however.

Hika wrote: 2p2929

Also, self voting strategy shouldn't be mentioned here. Maybe google it cause we're currently in game and dont want mafia doing anything with that information.

Strikes me as a LAMIST post mainly due to the "dont want mafia doing anything with that information". Just feels like such a weird addition to the sentence in general, ending at "we're currently in game" would've been acceptable but the last bit seems to be tacked on solely to remind us you're not mafia.

Also upon actually rereading you don't have as many posts I find questionable as I seem to have ed. You're probably still pretty null for me honestly. Sorry for forcing you to do stuff on your drinking night, I'm just giving my honest views!

also @mod can we have a votecount

Phoneposting on train. Note to all : I usually have time to check the game once a day due to college and work, I can't be more active than that but that's mt usual activity in mafia games.

I don't really like the sudden abraker wagon (self votes suck but being derrotostnisn't a scumtell by itself, tho it's very anti-town and I don't see how some people are sayin he's helping town) but I'm more concerned about the Zekks one from before, I'll reread stuff when I get home.

@EVERYONE: before we go foward, I like to ask one thing.

Do you understand how power roles are asigned in Matrix9? I'm asking this because there was a MASSIVE confusion last game and that caused a lot of needless debate. (If you don't understand please ask now, if you do, no need to reply to this)

----------------

So... foxtrot was the first one to vote Zekks after he claimed no mafia can stop him. I'm really interested why he considered so much about this being scum indicative, these kind of claims can't be resolved D1 because there's just too much risk. Him not answering questions is a totally different matter tho. Are the rest of such wagon just oportunistic?

Hika wrote: 2p2929

Also Zex, when i said anti town > scum, I meant it as a way like "sure he's anti town to me right now but I'd rather not vote for his lynch when we could be scum hunting"

hope that clears it up.

Oh okay, I do agree with that.

Dawnsday wrote: 366838

Hika wrote: 2p2929

Also, self voting strategy shouldn't be mentioned here. Maybe google it cause we're currently in game and dont want mafia doing anything with that information.

Strikes me as a LAMIST post mainly due to the "dont want mafia doing anything with that information". Just feels like such a weird addition to the sentence in general, ending at "we're currently in game" would've been acceptable but the last bit seems to be tacked on solely to remind us you're not mafia.

AFAIK Hika has never been too expresive, she usually goes with only a few lines per posts not explaing ideas a lot. I do agree with that statement anyways: if you have a plan which involves self-voting, you have to go to the end otherwise it will be for nothing. Same goes with reaction testing or stuff like that.

@John, @Dawnsday: why is Foxtrot so town? Going through her ISO shows little content in her lasts posts, last thing was the accusation to Zekks which I kinda understand but I don't see how she "analyses players very well". I do agree with she moving the game forward.

Dawnsday wrote: 366838

Strikes me as a LAMIST post mainly due to the "dont want mafia doing anything with that information". Just feels like such a weird addition to the sentence in general, ending at "we're currently in game" would've been acceptable but the last bit seems to be tacked on solely to remind us you're not mafia.

Also upon actually rereading you don't have as many posts I find questionable as I seem to have ed. You're probably still pretty null for me honestly. Sorry for forcing you to do stuff on your drinking night, I'm just giving my honest views!

also @mod can we have a votecount

You're not forcing me to do anything don't worry! I'm back from drinking so I'll post a bit.

I can definitely see where it could rub you incorrectly, but I meant it in a way where I wouldn't want to give the wrong people information that would work against town. I have many ways where I, myself as a player, would implement self-voting but would rather not go in depth with it this game.

Lets just say in my opinion, I see it as a shitty town confirming tactic as well as a ballsy scum move. As I said before, I'd rather have an anti town than a scum deceiving me but if that anti town is being extremely counteractive in our scum hunting, I'd be willing to get rid of them D1 to save town the trouble of being confused later on down the road.

After bboy VC then I'll be able to narrow down my reads a bit further. I have more people in the red rather than green, sad to say

also no more shitty reaction tests i'm not gonna let this over analyzing colors of your role PMs anymore lol

Zexion wrote: 11654m

So... foxtrot was the first one to vote Zekks after he claimed no mafia can stop him. I'm really interested why he considered so much about this being scum indicative, these kind of claims can't be resolved D1 because there's just too much risk. Him not answering questions is a totally different matter tho. Are the rest of such wagon just oportunistic?

I'm probably shooting myself in the foot by latching on Zekks's claim, but it's hard because there's not much content going on. But what other choice do I have, especially on D1? Like I said, I voted Zekks to get a reaction out of them but I got nothing. I might back down if it wasn't for the fact that a lot of new players tend to lurk the game when they have a mafia role, probably because it's a bit harder to play with a role like that.

And abraker is already voting for himself for the sake of PoE and he genuinely thinks that's gonna help town in the long run, but that's just dumb. It's not worth losing two town people over this.

Unless he wants to make us think that he's town, so it'd make sense if he's scum trying to gain our trust by doing something reckless,, claiming that it's for the greater good of town. That's why he's not backing down. That possibility doesn't sound too unrealistic. I'm glad people are wary of his actions.

Besides, why did abraker vote himself after rEdo if he could have just done it without someone else triggering it? I asked rEdo why he chose abraker and he asked me who would I have chosen instead. I straight up told him I don't know. But he also didn't answer my question, instead asking me another one, and that's a way to dodge a question as well.

so let me ask you again rEdo, why abraker?

Hika wrote: 2p2929

Lets just say in my opinion, I see it as a shitty town confirming tactic as well as a ballsy scum move. As I said before, I'd rather have an anti town than a scum deceiving me but if that anti town is being extremely counteractive in our scum hunting, I'd be willing to get rid of them D1 to save town the trouble of being confused later on down the road.

I understand that it's your night out so I won't pressure you but next time please write your thoughts in a more detailed way, and provide more information as to why you think that way. This is still rather vague to me.

Hika wrote: 2p2929

I have more people in the red rather than green, sad to say

Who?

Tell me what you'd like me to explain.
And I won't reveal that until i see total votes.

I'm saying john is coming up p much town for me.

Foxtrot wrote: 2l233p

Zexion wrote: 11654m

So... foxtrot was the first one to vote Zekks after he claimed no mafia can stop him. I'm really interested why he considered so much about this being scum indicative, these kind of claims can't be resolved D1 because there's just too much risk. Him not answering questions is a totally different matter tho. Are the rest of such wagon just oportunistic?

I'm probably shooting myself in the foot by latching on Zekks's claim, but it's hard because there's not much content going on. But what other choice do I have, especially on D1? Like I said, I voted Zekks to get a reaction out of them but I got nothing. I might back down if it wasn't for the fact that a lot of new players tend to lurk the game when they have a mafia role, probably because it's a bit harder to play with a role like that.

And abraker is already voting for himself for the sake of PoE and he genuinely thinks that's gonna help town in the long run, but that's just dumb. It's not worth losing two town people over this.

Unless he wants to make us think that he's town, so it'd make sense if he's scum trying to gain our trust by doing something reckless,, claiming that it's for the greater good of town. That's why he's not backing down. That possibility doesn't sound too unrealistic. I'm glad people are wary of his actions.

Yeah, there wasn't much more for content progression but you repeated the same thing... quite a few times. Your vote was kind of right tho, because that brought up the stronger claim. I definitely won't be up for a Zekks lynch right now, because new players also tend to be intimidated of the on-going discussion, there's a lot of question directed to him unaswered tho, but until he comes back, I can't be sure if he is still dodging them.

I'm still not sure if Dawn's vote on Zekks after just was oportunistic or a well thought-pressure plan.

Zexion wrote: 11654m

@John, @Dawnsday: why is Foxtrot so town? Going through her ISO shows little content in her lasts posts, last thing was the accusation to Zekks which I kinda understand but I don't see how she "analyses players very well". I do agree with she moving the game forward.

By good analyses I was thinking of back in the beginning of the game, but you're right about recent posts not having much content. As for why I think she's town...her posts don't seem scummy, maybe she's pushing the Zekks train too hard after most decided to leave it for now (most of her longer, more recent posts have something to do with Zekks), but again, she doesn't really seem like she's mafia.

I just noticed that quite a few people are still worried about the Zekks train so I take that bit back.

Foxtrot wrote: 2l233p

Zexion wrote: 11654m

Besides, why did abraker vote himself after rEdo if he could have just done it without someone else triggering it? I asked rEdo why he chose abraker and he asked me who would I have chosen instead. I straight up told him I don't know. But he also didn't answer my question, instead asking me another one, and that's a way to dodge a question as well.

so let me ask you again rEdo, why abraker?

That's because he's the most active in my could-be-scum-list, and I wanted to pressure him to fish out his reaction. That's how I usually (and I think that's how people should generally) use my vote. Why specifically abraker? He has shown that little information I could work him. I thought of pressuring john first, but then I realised he could scumslip by trying to get back on the Zekks wagon, because that seems like the easiest lynch scum could pull out today. And hell, that's what happened.

I hate the fact that abraker has not answered my question (who's scum?) yet, too. I feel like I forced out his reads, but he doesn't seem to be actually hunting for scum.

johnmedina999 wrote: 3r3a6s

I just noticed that quite a few people are still worried about the Zekks train so I take that bit back.

lol

abraker wrote: 6cx2d

abraker wrote: 6cx2d

Lincolm: The only problem is that he bandwagons with no real justification. Just declare a bandwagon, he will be second to hop on it

Slight correction: He bandwagons with no real justification, and makes it seem like it is a normal thing to do. I get it if you are trying to choke out activity or info, but it doesn't make sense otherwise.

It is normal things to do in MS, but MS has 2 weeks for the day. It makes sense for me. You bandwagon people, you get his reaction, you get interaction between people why did they pressure that person initially and why didn't they pressure him. You townread him, you unvote.

The thing is you're trying to make everyone who make bandwagons bad right now, so no one is going to vote their scumread, even for smallest gut, because "he is bandwagoning people". When this town are going to vote? When they are sure 100% someone is scum? If you scumread me, then you should have vote me instead self-voting.

Maybe your previous game makes you more aware with everyone's vote, but let's be honest, you could just vote - unvote when you doubt your read - vote again and so on.

Also, here is my statement regarding this :

Lincolm wrote: 2x5543

So what? No one pressure. No one pushing. Waiting more contents. PoE is less accurate thing to find scum, but is there any accurate method to find scum without power role? Is it wrong to use PoE? Why is L-3 (or maybe you thought it was L-2) a dangerous thing for you? even rEdo (plus someone if you really thought it was L-2) doesn't tell explicitly why did he vote you.

I want you to respond this.

Uhh.. there is also many questions to ask to you but my bet you won't respond them.

Hika wrote: 2p2929

also i just think it looks bad on lincolm to vote me after he sees a vote already on me, referring to an earlier page

Why are you suddenly referring this?

==

Anyway, I understand this setup.

Lincolm wrote: 2x5543

Uhh.. there is also many questions to ask to you but my bet you won't respond them.

Isn't the fact that somebody left a question unanswered also a valuable information to work with?

I said that because I want to vote Lincolm out.

I didn't quote you on that lincolm because people can see I'm referring to you and plus I'm on the phone.

Is anyone alive?

Foxtrot wrote: 2l233p

And abraker is already voting for himself for the sake of PoE and he genuinely thinks that's gonna help town in the long run, but that's just dumb. It's not worth losing two town people over this.

Would it help if I was still a no vote?

rEdo wrote: p3f2b

He has shown that little information I could work him

I think I showed well enough info to work with here. If you still think that's not enough, then you are doing poor analysis.

rEdo wrote: p3f2b

I hate the fact that abraker has not answered my question (who's scum?) yet, too. I feel like I forced out his reads, but he doesn't seem to be actually hunting for scum.

I prob missed it, and my first read was entirely voluntary action after reading this post. It reminded me about reads, so I decided to do one. My second read was due to escalated matters with PoE, uncertainty with zekks, end of Lincolm's color fiasco, and foxtrot giving a solid impression.

Lincolm wrote: 2x5543

If you scumread me, then you should have vote me instead self-voting.

But I didn't

Lincolm wrote: 2x5543

Maybe your previous game makes you more aware with everyone's vote, but let's be honest, you could just vote - unvote when you doubt your read - vote again and so on.

I try to minimize voting I have little justification for


Also Dawnsday got restricted and doubt he is coming back according to this.

@mod: Please replace Dawnsday and perhaps extend the deadline. Ace Timing, do you want to play in the end?

Yes, if you're town it WOULD help if you were still a no vote.

By that little I did not mean so little, but a little so I could work with it. Self-voting is a terribly bad idea, especially if you were town. I am not sure but you seem way too egocentric when it comes to playing mafia in general. And I just can't help myself to think this is a scum tell.

My vote stands where it was, as my read on abraker changed from leaning scum to scum.

By the way...

Hika wrote: 2p2929

abraker ur doing the same thing i dont think is a town move and im not going to vote you because it's dumb

Was that a warning from your scumpartner?

Prodding [ - Zekks - ]

It may just be my lack of experience, but I think Lincolm and abraker have been 1v1-ing for far too long, it's starting to look like bussing to me. Ever since this post, where Lincolm invokes abraker out of the blue, and the two start arguing. This wasn't suspicious back then, but certainly looks suspicious now; Lincolm might say that he was one of the only people active at the time and that it was random, but there was redo and Zekks to ask as well; why would he specifically choose abraker to invoke?

It doesn't help that almost all of both abraker's and Lincolm's posts have been fighting with each other, either. Either they're bussing each other, or one of them is town taking advantage of the situation.

johnmedina999 wrote: 3r3a6s

or one of them is town

or one of them is mafia*

I don't think he did that out of the blue, rather he did that to pull him into the game because he was kind of just.. there?

But I'm not disagreeing with you completely, I can see where you're coming from. I think at this point, Lincolm is running out of people to pin down so he's going to hop from one person to the next and see if he can do reaction tests? imo

rEdo wrote: p3f2b

Was that a warning from your scumpartner?

LMAO, you think I'm scumbuddies with abraker? I'm town bro.
If anything, I'd probably be voting him or Lincolm.

abraker because he doesn't seem like he understands the impact of him self-voting. I think redo explains it the way I would like to explain it myself. I can tolerate a NL vote > self vote.

Hey Hika, can we have your reads? You said you would post them after vote count.

my leaning town reads are john n dawn
red leaning would be linc, zekks
red being abraker

everyone is like really null too me.
my FoS is on Foxtrot cuz she was over analyzing but I could be over looking that

Posting before sleep but somehow I ended being really pissed off with some posts...

rEdo wrote: p3f2b

Lincolm wrote: 2x5543

Uhh.. there is also many questions to ask to you but my bet you won't respond them.

Isn't the fact that somebody left a question unanswered also a valuable information to work with?

Yeah, but I consider what if he missed it or just skim at that time.

abraker wrote: 6cx2d

I try to minimize voting I have little justification for

And yet, you never engage first for hunting the scum. If you're town, good job. Double thumbs up. And probably you missed where I said my reason to vote you isn't because PoE anymore.

Hika wrote: 2p2929

I said that because I want to vote Lincolm out.

Any reason why are you not voting me in there or now? I'm pretty sure there is no change in vote count when you said it. You might don't want to vote abraker because it will put him in L-1, you think Zekks could be PR for you, but why did you not vote me?

johnmedina999 wrote: 3r3a6s

It may just be my lack of experience, but I think Lincolm and abraker have been 1v1-ing for far too long, it's starting to look like bussing to me. Ever since this post, where Lincolm invokes abraker out of the blue, and the two start arguing. This wasn't suspicious back then, but certainly looks suspicious now; Lincolm might say that he was one of the only people active at the time and that it was random, but there was redo and Zekks to ask as well; why would he specifically choose abraker to invoke?

I don't know what to say, how is it "too long"? I even said I choose abraker because PoE for initial reason. Do you even know what is PoE?

Hika wrote: 2p2929

But I'm not disagreeing with you completely, I can see where you're coming from. I think at this point, Lincolm is running out of people to pin down so he's going to hop from one person to the next and see if he can do reaction tests? imo

This post is just rubbing me so hard and wrong. I don't even know if this is a reason for scumread me or a reason why are you not voting me or both.

Lincolm wrote: 2x5543

abraker wrote: 6cx2d

I try to minimize voting I have little justification for

And yet, you never engage first for hunting the scum. If you're town, good job. Double thumbs up. And probably you missed where I said my reason to vote you isn't because PoE anymore.

I am scum-hunting, but subtly. It's just that no fish took my bait yet, sadly.

we have like two more days in the game left, i'm not voting you cuz i dont see anyone else posting today? @Lincolm

I dont want scum to come along and 'accidentally' hammer abraker also. Would be dumb for anyone else to vote him without a complete town decision. hope you see where im coming from

@linc, dont take it personal, just go to bed lol

I need a rational post from zekks.

Hika wrote: 2p2929

abraker ur doing the same thing i dont think is a town move and im not going to vote you because it's dumb

Now that rEdo did bring it to my attention, what do you mean by "the same thing"?



Alright, Hika has a post quantity that is slightly easy to go through:




For those who just want the highlights:

Now this one is especially interesting, because if Hika had a PR, there would be a MUCH less likely chance of this mention. This brings odds of Hika being scum to 2/7

Hika wrote: 2p2929

oh shit I'm so slow I forgot we have possible PRs
Slow your role bros, zekks could be a PR and doing it wrong

If zekks says PR, then D2 will be his last whether scum or townie. Zekks can't say mafia because that will be dumb af. If zekks says townie,
then it can be to Hika's plan to get him out of the clear. Either way, this will either end bad for zekks or for town. Likely both. This action makes Hika lean towards the scum side.

Hika wrote: 2p2929

Dulcet wrote: 6r4n69

yeah, we do have PRs, but what makes you think Zekks is one and not just vanilla? Just chance?

I think Zekks did a general threat to everyone voting him so i say he should tell us his role before we PL him. Seriously

I'm not playing with an anti-town.

There are two things that bother me here. This is very pro town, but second, any discussion about strategy is viewed by both parties. It becomes a guessing game how it would be executed, which is no different than guessing who is town and scum. I fail to see how anything mentioned regarding to this would put town at a disadvantage nor put scum at an advantage

Hika wrote: 2p2929

Also, self voting strategy shouldn't be mentioned here. Maybe google it cause we're currently in game and dont want mafia doing anything with that information.

There is a contradiction here. You see how you would implement it yet you claim it's anti-town enough to lynch D1 and I don't know how logical this reasoning is if you are town. I don't get how, as a townie, you can claim knowledge of self-voting tactics but at the same time vote a self-voter "to save town the trouble of being confused later on down the road". That's your scum side speaking even if you are town.

Hika wrote: 2p2929

Dawnsday wrote: 366838

Strikes me as a LAMIST post mainly due to the "dont want mafia doing anything with that information". Just feels like such a weird addition to the sentence in general, ending at "we're currently in game" would've been acceptable but the last bit seems to be tacked on solely to remind us you're not mafia.

Also upon actually rereading you don't have as many posts I find questionable as I seem to have ed. You're probably still pretty null for me honestly. Sorry for forcing you to do stuff on your drinking night, I'm just giving my honest views!

also @mod can we have a votecount

You're not forcing me to do anything don't worry! I'm back from drinking so I'll post a bit.

I can definitely see where it could rub you incorrectly, but I meant it in a way where I wouldn't want to give the wrong people information that would work against town. I have many ways where I, myself as a player, would implement self-voting but would rather not go in depth with it this game.

Lets just say in my opinion, I see it as a shitty town confirming tactic as well as a ballsy scum move. As I said before, I'd rather have an anti town than a scum deceiving me but if that anti town is being extremely counteractive in our scum hunting, I'd be willing to get rid of them D1 to save town the trouble of being confused later on down the road.

I don't what to make of this, but thinking that more players are scum than town when 2/9 are scum is indicative of something

Hika wrote: 2p2929

After bboy VC then I'll be able to narrow down my reads a bit further. I have more people in the red rather than green, sad to say

Again with total votes. WHY? Vote count SHOULD NOT affect your reads. If it does, then you are being careful to word your reads to target someone or shift attention from someone.

Hika wrote: 2p2929

Tell me what you'd like me to explain.
And I won't reveal that until i see total votes.

I'm saying john is coming up p much town for me.

If you are scum, it would be a good tactic to put down your partner as red to not raise suspicion. It is even safer to do so now since most of the hellfire is currently on me and linc., and linc. may not be your partner

Hika wrote: 2p2929

my leaning town reads are john n dawn
red leaning would be linc, zekks
red being abraker

everyone is like really null too me.
my FoS is on Foxtrot cuz she was over analyzing but I could be over looking that

@Hika:
I do expect you to answer many of the question I asked in the spoiler box


.

Hika wrote: 2p2929

my FoS is on Foxtrot cuz she was over analyzing but I could be over looking that

I don't think I'm over-analyzing and your reads provided us with nothing. Why do you think Lincolm is red? Or why do you think John is town? Do you have concrete reasons behind your read? I know I haven't done one yet, but when I'll do, I'll try not to be lazy about it. And why do you think I'm over analyzing? Is it because I was onto Zekks, someone you've been trying to get our attention off from them? Your posts are also rubbing me off, and it seems like I'm not the only person who feels that way.

Hika wrote: 2p2929

After bboy VC then I'll be able to narrow down my reads a bit further. I have more people in the red rather than green, sad to say

Other people have been able to do reads without keeping track of VC and you're the only one doing this. Why should VC be important in your read? If someone has more votes or less votes, why would it matter towards your read? It just seems like you're waiting to see which person has most votes so you can deliver your coup de grâce

Foxtrot wrote: 2l233p

Hika wrote: 2p2929

Lets just say in my opinion, I see it as a shitty town confirming tactic as well as a ballsy scum move. As I said before, I'd rather have an anti town than a scum deceiving me but if that anti town is being extremely counteractive in our scum hunting, I'd be willing to get rid of them D1 to save town the trouble of being confused later on down the road.

I understand that it's your night out so I won't pressure you but next time please write your thoughts in a more detailed way, and provide more information as to why you think that way. This is still rather vague to me.

And you asked me what I'd like you to explain, but you don't need to explain anything. It's just that you lack reasoning behind your claims like you've been doing in your read and past posts. You write really small sentences that can be rather vague or really obvious, which makes you hard to read.

Why would you rather have anti-scum deceiving you? And if you know for sure someone is being anti-town, why vote for them when we could vote for scum instead? Do you want to get rid of anti-town right away because it's probably the most convenient vote?

johnmedina999 wrote: 3r3a6s

Zexion wrote: 11654m

@John, @Dawnsday: why is Foxtrot so town? Going through her ISO shows little content in her lasts posts, last thing was the accusation to Zekks which I kinda understand but I don't see how she "analyses players very well". I do agree with she moving the game forward.

By good analyses I was thinking of back in the beginning of the game, but you're right about recent posts not having much content. As for why I think she's town...her posts don't seem scummy, maybe she's pushing the Zekks train too hard after most decided to leave it for now (most of her longer, more recent posts have something to do with Zekks), but again, she doesn't really seem like she's mafia.

I'm curious about this. If foxtrot is town for her analytical posts, then Lincolm should also fall into that category (specially for this post, but you are (or were?) reading him as scum. Your reads aren't consistent.

johnmedina999 wrote: 3r3a6s

It may just be my lack of experience, but I think Lincolm and abraker have been 1v1-ing for far too long, it's starting to look like bussing to me. Ever since this post, where Lincolm invokes abraker out of the blue, and the two start arguing. This wasn't suspicious back then, but certainly looks suspicious now; Lincolm might say that he was one of the only people active at the time and that it was random, but there was redo and Zekks to ask as well; why would he specifically choose abraker to invoke?

It doesn't help that almost all of both abraker's and Lincolm's posts have been fighting with each other, either. Either they're bussing each other, or one of them is town taking advantage of the situation.

I don't really think both of them are scum, their dicussion seems to be a natural progression of the accusations, I mean, -it could be-, but I don't really see something indicative of bussing.

Okay one sec, I have to break everyone's posts down.

Ace Timing replaces Dawnsday

If I skipped any of your questions, feel free to quote them and tell me them. I felt as if I needed to answer all those that I see now. It's hard to see cause this post is long when I open it, lol.

Also, I asked for vote count because I see you're on L-2 and didn't have time to read up the thread to confirm that. As I said, I've been on my phone recently. My reads obviously influence town and I didn't want anyone to be like "okay so then vote abraker! *vote*" and have someone sneaky accidentally hammer. I don't think anyone is understanding this. And I dont want to be the only fucking one concerned about that but it's odd that no one else is caring about that.

To also clear some stuff up, I don't think anyone responded when Zexion asked if everyone knew how the matrix 6 setup was like. So if you don't understand why I'm so concerned with PR's, you're probably not taking the game seriously either. I don't want anyone to think Zekks is straight scum because of his threat that I have quoted here:

[ - Zekks - ] wrote: 4w4v2y

As long as I'm still alive, no mafia can't stop me

This puts me off so fucking bad you guys don't know. I'm not saying I'm not willing to vote him but it just doesn't feel right. I might be overthinking that, who knows.

Real quick before I answer Foxtrot's post, it is possible to have more than 2 scum reads. I think it's fucked up abraker thinks I cant have that lol.
Like I said, I currently have two leaning scum and one possible scum. Just talk to me and we can change that read, that's literally it

But it looks like Zekks is inactive rn

Foxtrot wrote: 2l233p

I don't think I'm over-analyzing and your reads provided us with nothing. Why do you think Lincolm is red? Or why do you think John is town? Do you have concrete reasons behind your read? I know I haven't done one yet, but when I'll do, I'll try not to be lazy about it. And why do you think I'm over analyzing? Is it because I was onto Zekks, someone you've been trying to get our attention off from them? Your posts are also rubbing me off, and it seems like I'm not the only person who feels that way.

That's why I was feeling suspicious. I just didn't see a reads list, that's all. You can read what I have posted for abraker and see if that works for you because I don't think you noticed what I've written the past bit.

Foxtrot wrote: 2l233p

Other people have been able to do reads without keeping track of VC and you're the only one doing this. Why should VC be important in your read? If someone has more votes or less votes, why would it matter towards your read? It just seems like you're waiting to see which person has most votes so you can deliver your coup de grâce

Invalid. I already have a strong disliking about how many votes are on abraker and have stated it like once or twice already. I'M the one holding my vote if you haven't noticed. My vote is all I have and I don't think you read my posts it seems. My reads still stand regardless of any vote changing from this point on unless someone else changes my mind.

Foxtrot wrote: 2l233p

Why would you rather have anti-scum deceiving you? And if you know for sure someone is being anti-town, why vote for them when we could vote for scum instead? Do you want to get rid of anti-town right away because it's probably the most convenient vote?

I think it's an obvious reason why I'd rather have anti-town deceiving me? I'm hoping you meant anti-town*. As I said, if I don't have any concrete leads for myself to believe a person is ing us, as a town, on scum hunting, they deserved to be voted out. I've always played my games like this. And you can see in previous games that we've HAD to do a PL cause someone's actions are so toxic, that the town feels like that other townie just needs to go.

I say anti town because I'm speaking from a transparent point of view. Meaning, we all think we're town... 2/9 of us aren't. I don't know which one of you guys aren't but all I know is that I'm going to vote for who doesn't go for town's win this game. That's all.

I HAVEN'T READ ANYTHING BUT I'M JESUS SO
Hika

Now, I personally want more content from zekks, redo, and zexion.

I'm off work tomorrow so I'll be sticking around more.

fuck
Vote: Hika

hello it's meeee

Lincolm wrote: 2x5543

I don't know what to say, how is it "too long"? I even said I choose abraker because PoE for initial reason. Do you even know what is PoE?

Yes, I know what PoE is. However, you only just started PoE here. Your PoE strategy does not include all the rest of your posts against abraker when the 1v1 could have ended long ago. Again, don't hold me against my claim, because this might be perfectly normal in a game and it just may be my lack of experience.

Zexion wrote: 11654m

johnmedina999 wrote: 3r3a6s

By good analyses I was thinking of back in the beginning of the game, but you're right about recent posts not having much content. As for why I think she's town...her posts don't seem scummy, maybe she's pushing the Zekks train too hard after most decided to leave it for now (most of her longer, more recent posts have something to do with Zekks), but again, she doesn't really seem like she's mafia.

I'm curious about this. If foxtrot is town for her analytical posts, then Lincolm should also fall into that category (specially for this post) but you are (or were?) reading him as scum. Your reads aren't consistent.

Well, it is true that both are very analytic, but Lincolm is still on my scum radar for the 1v1 claim I posted earlier; even so, his last post and his overall confidence are making me change my mind ever so slightly, although the latter might just be good acting, and the former might be me being a n00b. I'll have to wait and see.

---

Hika wrote: 2p2929

Invalid. I already have a strong disliking about how many votes are on abraker and have stated it like once or twice already. I'M the one holding my vote if you haven't noticed. My vote is all I have and I don't think you read my posts it seems. My reads still stand regardless of any vote changing from this point on unless someone else changes my mind.

The question was "why did you need a vote count to post your reads", not "why are you not voting". You seem to be answering a strawman.

Hika wrote: 2p2929

I dont want scum to come along and 'accidentally' hammer abraker also. Would be dumb for anyone else to vote him without a complete town decision. hope you see where im coming from

I
Feel
Like
I've
Said
That
30
Times
Now

johnmedina999 wrote: 3r3a6s

Zexion wrote: 11654m

I'm curious about this. If foxtrot is town for her analytical posts, then Lincolm should also fall into that category (specially for this post) but you are (or were?) reading him as scum. Your reads aren't consistent.

Well, it is true that both are very analytic, but Lincolm is still on my scum radar for the 1v1 claim I posted earlier; even so, his last post and his overall confidence are making me change my mind ever so slightly, although the latter might just be good acting, and the former might be me being a n00b. I'll have to wait and see.

But you didn't say that on your original read list, that only makes me wonder if you just arbitraly decided Lincolm was scum.

Hika wrote: 2p2929

I dont want scum to come along and 'accidentally' hammer abraker also. Would be dumb for anyone else to vote him without a complete town decision. hope you see where im coming from

I often don't consider this as a valid reason for holding a vote. L-1 is where magic happens, but yeah, its debatable whether or not put someone at L-1 on a newbie game because of people not often realizing how dangerous quickhammers are. However, considering the deadline, I think it's not THAT risky to put someone at L-1.

Thanks for letting me know your opinion on that @Zex.
I might just be very cautious about it is all. I just had an issue a few years back playing an I accidentally hammered without noticing VC. I'm just very curious when it comes to that and I can even link that game if I need to.

ok i just started reading and stuff

Foxtrot wrote: 2l233p

Lincolm wrote: 2x5543

That's logical answer. And no, I just ask if you get red or green colour, hoping you to answer red somehow.

Well-written flavour, though.

why would he answer red? are you trying to distract us from actual scum and shift the attention to the new players?

Hey Zekks, what do you think about John?

this further proves my suspicion; stop trying to initiate a bandwagon, it's not working

Vote: Lincolm

this is horrible lmao

Foxtrot wrote: 2l233p

you're acting very scummy, zekks. if you're town, i advise you to stop it. you're most likely not.

I'm starting to think this is playstyle cause you sound so forced and unnatural

[ - Zekks - ] wrote: 4w4v2y

As long as I'm still alive, no mafia can't stop me

I know I am going a full 180 on this, but something just clicked in me. Zekks role claim doesn't look like a bad option, but as Hika said, he might be doing it wrong. All I can do is cross my fingers and hope it is what I think it is.

Hika wrote: 2p2929

Real quick before I answer Foxtrot's post, it is possible to have more than 2 scum reads. I think it's fucked up abraker thinks I cant have that lol.
Like I said, I currently have two leaning scum and one possible scum.

That is better. A 3/9 turn out is not bad, however the quote I responded to had you with a 5/9+ turn out according to what you said here, "I have more people in the red rather than green, sad to say". Ofc, I didn't consider null now that I think of it.


@Hika comment on the following responses that were not spoilered. I reposted them here:

Lincolm wrote: 2x5543

Vote : abraker because PoE (L-3)

LOL
is this PoE on day one? How the fuck dude?

Dawnsday wrote: 366838

Lincolm wrote: 2x5543

, but I hate policy lynch also.

Why? If he's not commited to reading he's going to hurt town in the long run. It's not FUN to policy lynch rest assured I'd rather the idea was never even conceived but honestly.

I read this as dawn actually saying he'd like it better if zekks was never conceived and I was laughing so hard

Hika wrote: 2p2929

I have more people in the red rather than green, sad to say

me_irl
y'all are so scummy for no reason

@Foxtrot. Your posts are turning out too null or leaning townie, but since I know how analytically helpful behavior goes, it can be either town or mafia. Speaking from experience here where I was playing mafia and was nothing but that which convinced a lot of players I was town (see my first game here where I started questioning players more and more with similar tactics as the game went on).

To level this uncertainty off, I ask you to analyze your own posts and come up with a detailed read on yourself.

Ace Timing wrote: 36512t

Hika wrote: 2p2929

I have more people in the red rather than green, sad to say

me_irl
y'all are so scummy for no reason

THIS IS EXACRLT
WHAT IM SAYINF BRO LOL

also abraker wait for my response later I'm drunk rn lol
Will reply tomorrow

abraker wrote: 6cx2d

To level this uncertainty off, I ask you to analyze your own posts and come up with a detailed read on yourself.

LOL

holy shit you guys have me rolling

abraker wrote: 6cx2d

To level this uncertainty off, I ask you to analyze your own posts and come up with a detailed read on yourself.

And why?

abraker wrote: 6cx2d

Your posts are turning out too null or leaning townie, but since I know how analytically helpful behavior goes, it can be either town or mafia.

So are my posts leaning townie or mafia? You're confusing me

ok it took me about 20 minutes to read everything, which was, disappointing, to say the least.

I want to say my reads are something like
Town:
Zexion
Hika
abraker

Null:
rEdo
Lincolm

Scum:
Foxtrot
johnmedina999
[ - Zekks - ]

Which is too many scum for the purposes of this game.

abraker was initially scum, which had me at more scum than town lol

Foxtrot wrote: 2l233p

And why?

Your posts are full of valid points and analysis, and it's hard to find a fault in them, at least for me. People are prone to bias when talking about themselves, more so when trying to hide something. It will be an interesting analysis to read because it will highlight either your bias or faults. To put it in layman , I have a hard time reading you despite your activity.

Foxtrot wrote: 2l233p

So are my posts leaning townie or mafia? You're confusing me

I am saying that your posts are leaning townie, but they also are reminiscent of my tactics in the first game I played where I was scum.

I don't feel like to read the wall posts. I will read them later.

abraker wrote: 6cx2d

I am scum-hunting, but subtly. It's just that no fish took my bait yet, sadly.

I'm pretty sure you need more than one bait for scumhunting.

Hika wrote: 2p2929

we have like two more days in the game left, i'm not voting you cuz i dont see anyone else posting today? @Lincolm

I fail to see why voting me should be cautious when I'm at L-4.

johnmedina999 wrote: 3r3a6s

Yes, I know what PoE is. However, you only just started PoE here. Your PoE strategy does not include all the rest of your posts against abraker when the 1v1 could have ended long ago. Again, don't hold me against my claim, because this might be perfectly normal in a game and it just may be my lack of experience.

I said I'm sticking my vote on him after that post, though. Because I don't see why and how his action is coming from town, at all.

Ace Timing wrote: 36512t

I HAVEN'T READ ANYTHING BUT I'M JESUS SO
Hika

Thanks, Lucifer, Hika wasn't L-1.

Why did you do this?

Ace Timing wrote: 36512t

LOL
is this PoE on day one? How the fuck dude?

Uh-huh. Because I can.

Ace Timing wrote: 36512t

Scum:
Foxtrot
johnmedina999
[ - Zekks - ]

Have you considered what if they are newbie? because I read three of them as newbie.

I don't really get abraker's last 2 posts but I'm gonna put that aside for now. But both posts rub me so wrong, I will try to get their context when I'm not lazy.

yes they are newbie and scum
ty for adjectives

So you like your vote in Hika, your townread, instead your scumread? Interesting choice

@Ace Timing: what makes you think Foxtrot is scum?

Lincolm wrote: 2x5543

So you like your vote in Hika, your townread, instead your scumread? Interesting choice

I'm exceedingly lazy

rEdo wrote: p3f2b

@Ace Timing: what makes you think Foxtrot is scum?

He's got a tone of awkwardness and stiffness that I don't particularly like. I also find a few of his posts quite egregrious.

p/6181003/

These posts are some examples of such


It's not the scummiest ISO on earth but it's hard to get a baseline like this lol

Ace Timing wrote: 36512t

p/6177786/

Explain how this one indicates scum. Looks like a legit reaction to me.

Ace Timing wrote: 36512t

p/6181003/

This one is less, but Hika showed similar concern here.


Now that I think of it, I don't see anyone show as much concern for my self vote as much as these two. Others had a weak reaction and/or voted on me. rEdo showed some on it, but it's geared toward PoE and without much concern for voting me despite the possible consequences.

To be clear, I am not implying that they are showing town behavior, but I am implying connections which can be used to draw conclusions from.

Foxtrot wrote: 2l233p

abraker wrote: 6cx2d

Well since we can forgive zekks's concerning stupidity, PoE looks sexy as fuck, and I would like to bring my end of the deal, I guess I have no choice either

vote: abraker

No, you do have a choice. And that choice is not to off yourself. Are you trying to do this to make yourself more believable?

Foxtrot wrote: 2l233p

[ - Zekks - ] wrote: 4w4v2y

Who's her?

are you deliberately avoiding my question?

It reads sour to me as disingenuous because it looks like he's trying to twist things into being scummy and then asking them if they're doing it. Feels like ez faux-scumhunting

Ace Timing wrote: 36512t

It reads sour to me as disingenuous because it looks like he's trying to twist things into being scummy and then asking them if they're doing it. Feels like ez faux-scumhunting

I am still trying to figure out Foxtrot and have trouble seeing that, but it is a helpful explanation.

Ace Timing wrote: 36512t

faux-scumhunting

Still noob enough not to know what this means

abraker wrote: 6cx2d

Ace Timing wrote: 36512t

faux-scumhunting

Still noob enough not to know what this means

faux is a french word for false

Wow nobody? Did we run out of ideas on how to find scum or something?





Imo, rEdo exhibits more sincere townie actions than I expected from such little activity. Def more town than Hika.

Thanks, rEdo, now my spoilerbox is fucked up because of you lol

oh... not only the spoilerbox, some quotes too. Unfortunately since I am dealing with more than 2 nested quotes in this post, I had to use the buggy new forums for this. And by buggy, I mean CSS doesn't allow my to scroll around, making me see only one part of the post. So I will make no effort to fix this considering that and the fact my clock is showing 3:14am.

sorry guys I had my first day of work today and tomorrow my shift won't end until 3:30 PST but I'll definitely be here after then

Ace Timing wrote: 36512t

Foxtrot wrote: 2l233p

are you deliberately avoiding my question?

It reads sour to me as disingenuous because it looks like he's trying to twist things into being scummy and then asking them if they're doing it. Feels like ez faux-scumhunting

What? I asked them a question and they completely ignored it but because they asked "who's she" that means they actually read it. I was rightfully irritated

abraker wrote: 6cx2d

RVS vote. Recursive likely hints nothing, though it would be nice of rEdo did say something regarding it

rEdo wrote: p3f2b

Why are you so mean already

I haven't seen Zekks in our recursive town yet, so he must be the bad guy!
Vote: [ - Zekks - ]

By recursive I just meant that we're playing the mafia game over and over. We keep scumhunting, we keep dying, etcetera.

abraker wrote: 6cx2d

Detail picking, but what is interesting is that rEdo completely miss Lincolm's color fiasco as well as him asking too many questions for comfort. Instead rEdo went straight to Zekks. Now this might be due to laziness on mobile judging by how it's hard to fuck up a simple quote box on pc, but then attempting to correct it instead of saying "fuck it" tells me otherwise. So the questions remains open: why didn't rEdo pick up on Lincolm before or after reponding to zekks in that session?

Because I saw that as a RVS quarrel and did not take it seriously, so I'd rather wait and see what people have to say.

abraker wrote: 6cx2d

I am most active yet I provide so little information. Well I can say same about Foxtrot, so eh. It does look like the pressuring John thing is sincere.

I have already addressed that.