this has probably been said but here is my second take

make denizenship purely subjective. the catch is that it has absolutely zero perks attached to it, that way, denizenship turns to what i described in my first post, just a way to people that were/are a part of the community. with this, all the problems go away, because to be a "denizen" is no longer anything special and people stop caring whether they are denizens or not.

from what i understand, you are trying to change the core principles of denizenship itself, to transform it from a subjective to an objective system. i also want to add the fact that by making a clear, objective requirement for becoming denizen, like "300 posts" or whatever, it is like encouraging people to make a lot of posts, most of will probably not be of good quality, just to get to the denizen title. having a subjective requirement, such as "be memorable" or "be recognizable" encourages higher quality and overall makes the board more enjoyable for everyone.

who care
dont let this distract u guys from the fact that this guy is literally a potato
is like if i let my pet rock become president

Blushing wrote: 5x575

ahhhh its time for meeeeeeeeeee.

patatitta, being leader and making decisions that not only reflect you, but impact an entire ecosystem means that your choices and decisions will not be liked and some people will vehemently hate you.

---- To rework the system means you will be Sisyphus. Though you want this thing fleshed out and changed, somehow, someway so go against the grain and propose what YOU want to do. Whether people like it or not.

My main gripe with this post is this. Everything else was pretty sound advice, including the council to elect denizens and the honorary forefathers comments. But the main reason why this thread is such a hotspot for post activity is because people don't like what Patatitta wants to do with denizenship. People will give backlash, and there will be vocal reception simply because OT is a forum. If Patatitta followed this "Whether you like it or not" mentality, a lot of people would probably suggest that the OT!Gov be abolished, and this subforum return to the days before OT!Gov. And though it doesn't relate to the main point in any capacity, comparing him with Sisyphus doesn't work in Patatitta's favor here, either; since it can be assumed that Sisyphus is pushing a boulder up an exponentially growing mountain, given he can never climb it. If Patatitta wanted to enforce his ideals, he'd essentially be cutting under the mountain and pushing his boulder that way, thus undermining the struggles of being an active President, thus highlighting a legacy of ignoring the community and endorsing an autonomous authority. And nobody who has been in OT long enough to know even a little bit about how this place works would want that.

burgernfat wrote: 6p3sh

make denizenship purely subjective. the catch is that it has absolutely zero perks attached to it, that way, denizenship turns to what i described in my first post, just a way to people that were/are a part of the community.

That's kinda what it was already. From my POV, people who get denizen are just new of the cool kids club.

tbh just a number of post only isn't a good idea, as post farming would grant you denizen. It should be another ingredient, such as post quality or how their threads are.

removing objective milestones for denizenship allows for it to truly be the "honorary" and prestigious title that everyone wants, or seems to desire.

keremaru wrote: 3r6e2u

stuff in pink

Sisyphus finds meaning and life in what he does. Sometimes the struggle is better than the reward. Seeing something come to fruition that you have fought tooth and nail for is arguably what a politician should do, whether you like their ideals or not.

If OT!Gov is abolished... nothign changes.

It would be as if it was last year or the year before. This is the only government that has proposed meaningful change and has been useful to some degree, whether you like the changes or not.

Im sorry that you dont like what patatitta is going to do or is trying to do to denizenship. You lot are so attached to a honorary title in a rhythm clicking game for a forum that is mostly shit post and shenanigans. People being gatekept from participating in certain events or activities because they dont have it is insane, to name a few: Corne's Collab, OT elections, Pretty much any Manishh event. It has become less about "hey this dude is historic!" and more like spongebob trying to get into the salty spitoon, its humorous.

There are actual things that can be done, like reducing the objective criteria so people can't complain about how they meet a criteria and it is strictly based on overall feeling. Post quality, amount, and frequency can be helpful factors yes, but to meet a criteria of like 300 posts in 8 months is stupid because I can just spam the front page with remotely relevant posts and be fine and then get denizen based on that, it just isnt a good metric. A good metric would be to genuinely ask the council "What do you from blushing without needing to look at their OT history?" If they sayu negative things or "not much" then its pretty clear I was not historic, ya know?

create a separate entity of the government that doesnt report to them but sends them their list of people for denizen then the president, and only the president, signs off on them: yes or no.

patatitta, if people genuinely hate you for a title that holds too many meanings behind it being taken away from them, then they need to touch grass and that it really doesnt matter this much and it isnt that deep. Its not as if denizen allows them any privilege outside roleplaying in certain threads.

Uh @abraker we should probably make a constitution

Blushing wrote: 5x575

removing objective milestones for denizenship allows for it to truly be the "honorary" and prestigious title that everyone wants, or seems to desire.

keremaru wrote: 3r6e2u

stuff in pink

Sisyphus finds meaning and life in what he does. Sometimes the struggle is better than the reward. Seeing something come to fruition that you have fought tooth and nail for is arguably what a politician should do, whether you like their ideals or not.

If OT!Gov is abolished... nothign changes.

It would be as if it was last year or the year before. This is the only government that has proposed meaningful change and has been useful to some degree, whether you like the changes or not.

Im sorry that you dont like what patatitta is going to do or is trying to do to denizenship. You lot are so attached to a honorary title in a rhythm clicking game for a forum that is mostly shit post and shenanigans. People being gatekept from participating in certain events or activities because they dont have it is insane, to name a few: Corne's Collab, OT elections, Pretty much any Manishh event. It has become less about "hey this dude is historic!" and more like spongebob trying to get into the salty spitoon, its humorous.

There are actual things that can be done, like reducing the objective criteria so people can't complain about how they meet a criteria and it is strictly based on overall feeling. Post quality, amount, and frequency can be helpful factors yes, but to meet a criteria of like 300 posts in 8 months is stupid because I can just spam the front page with remotely relevant posts and be fine and then get denizen based on that, it just isnt a good metric. A good metric would be to genuinely ask the council "What do you from blushing without needing to look at their OT history?" If they sayu negative things or "not much" then its pretty clear I was not historic, ya know?

create a separate entity of the government that doesnt report to them but sends them their list of people for denizen then the president, and only the president, signs off on them: yes or no.

patatitta, if people genuinely hate you for a title that holds too many meanings behind it being taken away from them, then they need to touch grass and that it really doesnt matter this much and it isnt that deep. Its not as if denizen allows them any privilege outside roleplaying in certain threads.

OF COURSE I'M ATTACHED TO A RHYTHM GAME FORUM, HERE PPL ACCEPT I HAVE AN OBSESSION WITH THE TRUE OWNER IF THE WORLD

Blushing wrote: 5x575

keremaru wrote: 3r6e2u

stuff in pink

stuff that isn't annoying to read

Actually...

I'll it that gatekeeping activities to denizens only is pretty cringe, but I still stand by my opinion that it's basically a cool kids club. Though I was blindsided by just looking at the present OT and not taking a retrospect at what denizenship actually implied for everybody else, especially since I've had it for way too long. There is a problem with how denizenship is treated in OT, especially by people who view it as a prestigious status when it's nothing more than a "hey you're cool here's a title". There's way too much weight around denizenship as it stands, and after a rescoping of my previous stances, there is something that has to be done about the weight of denizenship. I'm still mainly against the whole eradication of the system, but after that 'honorary title' statement, I began to realize just how ively attached I was to something that I didn't really work all that hard for, in contrast to what people have to do now. To be fair, in OT at least, I'm nothing more than an old man trying to keep relevant in a landscape that's changed drastically from what I've been used to, for the better or otherwise.

tl;dr: yea fair enough tbh, i didn't know you were chill like that

Polyspora wrote: 4i695

Uh @abraker we should probably make a constitution

There is.

Why is there so much complaints about Denizen now all of a sudden? This is like 10x the normal rate. Changing something is worse than not changing anything at all, you lot are just breaking something that was inherently subjective and messed up to begin with. Nothing can be fixed, it can only go down from here on.

Nuuskamuikkunen wrote: 6f1wj

Polyspora wrote: 4i695

Uh @abraker we should probably make a constitution

There is.

well... is there one that ACTUALLY PUTS SOMETHING ABOUT DENIZENSHIP INTO SET STONE?

this does not need any change

too late we're probably just going to implement what I said earlier skill issue everyone

hahaha this guy

Ymir wrote: 2z2l6t

hahaha this guy

Patatitta wrote: 5t25

too late we're probably just going to implement what I said earlier skill issue everyone

Literally biggest fuck you to someone that actually gave and you refused to just comment or even talk about it with me.

Blushing wrote: 5x575

Im sorry that you dont like what patatitta is going to do or is trying to do to denizenship. You lot are so attached to a honorary title in a rhythm clicking game for a forum that is mostly shit post and shenanigans. People being gatekept from participating in certain events or activities because they dont have it is insane, to name a few: Corne's Collab, OT elections, Pretty much any Manishh event. It has become less about "hey this dude is historic!" and more like spongebob trying to get into the salty spitoon, its humorous.

Corne's collab allowed for active dwellers.

OT elections sure, but it is something done for older dwellers (denizens).

Manishh events are rare and there are recent examples of his events that also allowed for everyone to enter (they flopped in general, but let's not talk about that).

Blushing wrote: 5x575

Patatitta wrote: 5t25

too late we're probably just going to implement what I said earlier skill issue everyone

Literally biggest fuck you to someone that actually gave and you refused to just comment or even talk about it with me.

i'm sorry but y'all are just plainly wrong and i'm kinda tired to actually respond



1- "Choose another team for selecting denizenship"

Those are tasks of the gov, but I was refeering more to if there should be a more systematic way to prevent us on sleeping on it or whateever


2- "What does denizenship mean?"

We have ended up on a definition that is more on the lines "someone who is in the OT community"


3- "making it not subjective is a bad idea"

For 90% of it's lifespan denizenship hasn't been subjective, the initial ruling by abraker only required 3 months of activity and nothing more, then it got reworked to require more time, and after that, ghouly reworked it to require some sort of contribution to OT, however, the parliament was slow and this basically wasn't enforced. So yeah, OT has NEVER had a subjective ruling over denizen and shit has always been fine. It also s our definition of denizen.


4- "It doesn't need change"

Excluding this one, in the last 4 years the denizen system has been reworked twice, and even after the latest rework, there has still been drama and complaints which were never solved, just ignored. Take for example the dramas surrounding the switches in generation. Not only that, but i'm trying to avoid things like the blushing situation happening again, where the parliament fucks up and then they make a poll to see if they undo their mistake, because they don't need a poll to actually run shit but they do need one to revert it apparently. This system should prevent a lot of the drama since it makes it harder for us the government to actually pull off things like that.


5- "You can't push this change or else there would be a revolution"

I said I was going to do this exact thing, and I got voted in by mayority, not only that, but then I ran the parliament elections, and the people who ended up winning mostly these ideas, if you're now mad about it, it's your fault.


6- You guys are really fucking biased.

Like really, i'm sorry blushing but I don't know if you aegree with me because you agree with my idea or because you think licking my asshole will grant you denizen, not only that but I feel people like ymir were already against me even from before this, so I don't know how seriously can I take the criticism torwards this. Whenever you consider a lot of the criticism is just missguided as I said with the "denizen is subjective!!!!" thing, I just can't take you seriously

69th post

drama funny

Patatitta wrote: 5t25

Blushing wrote: 5x575

Patatitta wrote: 5t25

too late we're probably just going to implement what I said earlier skill issue everyone

Literally biggest fuck you to someone that actually gave and you refused to just comment or even talk about it with me.

i'm sorry but y'all are just plainly wrong and i'm kinda tired to actually respond



1- "Choose another team for selecting denizenship"

Those are tasks of the gov, but I was refeering more to if there should be a more systematic way to prevent us on sleeping on it or whateever


2- "What does denizenship mean?"

We have ended up on a definition that is more on the lines "someone who is in the OT community"


3- "making it not subjective is a bad idea"

For 90% of it's lifespan denizenship hasn't been subjective, the initial ruling by abraker only required 3 months of activity and nothing more, then it got reworked to require more time, and after that, ghouly reworked it to require some sort of contribution to OT, however, the parliament was slow and this basically wasn't enforced. So yeah, OT has NEVER had a subjective ruling over denizen and shit has always been fine. It also s our definition of denizen.


4- "It doesn't need change"

Excluding this one, in the last 4 years the denizen system has been reworked twice, and even after the latest rework, there has still been drama and complaints which were never solved, just ignored. Take for example the dramas surrounding the switches in generation. Not only that, but i'm trying to avoid things like the blushing situation happening again, where the parliament fucks up and then they make a poll to see if they undo their mistake, because they don't need a poll to actually run shit but they do need one to revert it apparently. This system should prevent a lot of the drama since it makes it harder for us the government to actually pull off things like that.


5- "You can't push this change or else there would be a revolution"

I said I was going to do this exact thing, and I got voted in by mayority, not only that, but then I ran the parliament elections, and the people who ended up winning mostly these ideas, if you're now mad about it, it's your fault.


6- You guys are really fucking biased.

Like really, i'm sorry blushing but I don't know if you aegree with me because you agree with my idea or because you think licking my asshole will grant you denizen, not only that but I feel people like ymir were already against me even from before this, so I don't know how seriously can I take the criticism torwards this. Whenever you consider a lot of the criticism is just missguided as I said with the "denizen is subjective!!!!" thing, I just can't take you seriously

We'll go through it.

1. Systematic includes making another body so you dont sleep on it, I dont exactly understand why you are the rest of government are against this idea.

2. Ok at least there is a definition you guys are going to stick to.

3. objectivity is just going to ruin it because people can and will complain, but it sounds like your newer version of what you want is somewhat going into this way?

4. i've never said it didn't need change?

5. yes but you explicitly have said things about being "scared" or hesitant about how people will react to your change, I simply said you either do or don't. Whichever you do is something that someone isn't going to like so might as well do what you want to do.

6. If you think i'm going to brown nose you, you are sadly mistaken. You are asking the public about their opinions of a system. I have said multiple times I do not care about getting denizen, but that doesn't mean I can't give input on that.

My joke posts are very far and inbetween because Im not going to joke with the vast majority of players that I don't care about. If I am giving input on things in this subforum its because I am actually thinking and wanting conversation not you insinuating that i licking your asshole.

There is a certain jaded ideal you get from being within the group than being outside, and that is what I wanted to bring to attention. With every group: GMT, NAT, LVD, BN, DEV, etc. there is a certain aspect that everyone becomes accustomed to and that you don't individually see issues that the outside can see or want to bring to attention.

All i wanted was a conversation and I posted both of those in due time for you to reply, but then you simply had to take it in a way that I'm "licking your asshole" for a title that grants nothing. Be so fucking for real. If im brown nosing anything it is not for this subforum, and especially not for you.

That's a lot of text.

Karmine wrote: 6c5h1b

That's a lot of text.

thankfully i am a vulpix so i cant read

ColdTooth wrote: 1g2nr

Karmine wrote: 6c5h1b

That's a lot of text.

thankfully i am a vulpix so i cant read

I'm not a vulpix but I'm too fucking stupid to read

I am glad I did the bare minimum in my presidency.

Nuuskamuikkunen wrote: 6f1wj

I am glad I did the bare minimum in my presidency.

Former president bad, current president good.

If you guys just had voted for me, we would have been doing a orgy event at this point

Just slowly let it decay...

Polyspora wrote: 4i695

Uh @abraker we should probably make a constitution

done community/forums/topics/1021462

B0ii wrote: 33m13

Nuuskamuikkunen wrote: 6f1wj

Polyspora wrote: 4i695

Uh @abraker we should probably make a constitution

There is.

well... is there one that ACTUALLY PUTS SOMETHING ABOUT DENIZENSHIP INTO SET STONE?

V. Denizens may acquire denizenship if they fulfill the current requirements stated by the Royal Society, which can be found at
community/forums/topics/615764

until community/forums/topics/1276058

03/19/2021
Time requirement for denizenship increased from 2 months to 8 months

03/19/2021
Remove the 10 page post history requirement to becoming a denizen.

03/19/2021
Formation of the DAT:
Future OT denizens will have to atleast be in OT for 8 months before their denizenship can be reviewed by the Denizen Approval Team (DAT).
Exceptions to this rule will be decided by the DAT on certain specific cases, when the 8 months requirement is not suitable to judge an individual's denizenship.
The DAT will consists of current Parliament and will hold votes regarding the inclusion of a denizen to OT.
Once every 1.5 to 2 months, or whenever there's an influx of new denizens, the DAT will hold meetings to review new denizenships.

So basically right now, officially, parliament votes on who becomes denizen. Heeyyy elections matter!

Karmine wrote: 6c5h1b

That's a lot of text.

thank god i dont have the motivation to read:3

The fix is

Everyone is a denizen

abraker wrote: 6cx2d

Polyspora wrote: 4i695

Uh @abraker we should probably make a constitution

done community/forums/topics/1021462

So you are saying there has been multiple breaking of constitution. Election not being happen last year and the requirement for voting in the election being changed.

Manishh wrote: 2k5q58

abraker wrote: 6cx2d

Polyspora wrote: 4i695

Uh @abraker we should probably make a constitution

done community/forums/topics/1021462

So you are saying there has been multiple breaking of constitution. Election not being happen last year and the requirement for voting in the election being changed.

Nobody enforces it so yeah

cum

-

Cerno wrote: 6g571s

cum

Polyspora wrote: 4i695

Manishh wrote: 2k5q58

abraker wrote: 6cx2d

Polyspora wrote: 4i695

Uh @abraker we should probably make a constitution

done community/forums/topics/1021462

So you are saying there has been multiple breaking of constitution. Election not being happen last year and the requirement for voting in the election being changed.

Nobody enforces it so yeah

You are saying like it was not your responsibility to apply it last year

Manishh wrote: 2k5q58

Polyspora wrote: 4i695

Manishh wrote: 2k5q58

abraker wrote: 6cx2d

Polyspora wrote: 4i695

Uh @abraker we should probably make a constitution

done community/forums/topics/1021462

So you are saying there has been multiple breaking of constitution. Election not being happen last year and the requirement for voting in the election being changed.

Nobody enforces it so yeah

You are saying like it was not your responsibility to apply it last year

It wasn't, we weren't even the real parliament. Only promise we made was to continue denizenship.

Be the change you want --Abraker sensei

also, fun fact: the 8 month requirement was what penguin pushed in 2021, we only increased the post requirement.

8 months is good who is complaining about that?

Ymir wrote: 2z2l6t

8 months is good who is complaining about that?

cephaphysic is, maybe if you read the thread you would understand stuff

man i miss penguin i hope he's doing good now

Quick post a gif of penguins ass!

Patatitta wrote: 5t25

Ymir wrote: 2z2l6t

8 months is good who is complaining about that?

cephaphysic is, maybe if you read the thread you would understand stuff

I had an intelligent response to this, just letting you know.

So far from this thread alone, without counting the president, I can see that there are 5 progressives (keremaru) against any changes OR for just a few corrections.

(The others are either neutral or I don't know)

((Please correct me if I have made a mistake))

his everything wrote: x243s

So far from this thread alone, without counting the president, I can see that there are 5 progressives (keremaru) against any changes OR for just a few corrections.

(The others are either neutral or I don't know)

((Please correct me if I have made a mistake))

I was never for the abolition

I am consistently wanting change to it, just because I am suggesting non-radical changes doesn't mean im conservative.

Any major change I have attempted to talk about just leads people into thinking I want change because I lost denizen or because I want it that bad. Idk.

his everything wrote: x243s

So far from this thread alone, without counting the president, I can see that there are 5 progressives (keremaru) against any changes OR for just a few corrections.

(The others are either neutral or I don't know)

((Please correct me if I have made a mistake))

I'm the enlightened centrist that sits in the middle and doesn't think

his everything wrote: x243s

So far from this thread alone, without counting the president, I can see that there are 5 progressives (keremaru) against any changes OR for just a few corrections.

(The others are either neutral or I don't know)

((Please correct me if I have made a mistake))

man fuck this government shit, I just wanna make silly yet deep threads with interesting stories and lore

Corne2Plum3 wrote: 3y1z1p

his everything wrote: x243s

So far from this thread alone, without counting the president, I can see that there are 5 progressives (keremaru) against any changes OR for just a few corrections.

(The others are either neutral or I don't know)

((Please correct me if I have made a mistake))

I was never for the abolition

"OR the reform"

Blushing wrote: 5x575

I am consistently wanting change to it, just because I am suggesting non-radical changes doesn't mean im conservative.

Any major change I have attempted to talk about just leads people into thinking I want change because I lost denizen or because I want it that bad. Idk.

I absolutely didn't put you in that category just because you lost denizen, however, as you are the person who has proposed the most changes in this thread (even though Patatitta doesn't care or something), it would be illogical of me to say that you're not in favor of progress. Sorry for the inconvenience I've caused!

update: we figured it out

B0ii wrote: 33m13

his everything wrote: x243s

So far from this thread alone, without counting the president, I can see that there are 5 progressives (keremaru) against any changes OR for just a few corrections.

(The others are either neutral or I don't know)

((Please correct me if I have made a mistake))

man fuck this government shit, I just wanna make silly yet deep threads with interesting stories and lore

no one is stopping you, denizen thread being one way or another shouldn't affect your threads

his everything wrote: x243s

So far from this thread alone, without counting the president, I can see that there are 5 progressives (keremaru) against any changes OR for just a few corrections.

(The others are either neutral or I don't know)

((Please correct me if I have made a mistake))

i literally dont care i just dislike potato

his everything wrote: x243s

So far from this thread alone, without counting the president, I can see that there are 5 progressives (keremaru) against any changes OR for just a few corrections.

(The others are either neutral or I don't know)

((Please correct me if I have made a mistake))

nah cuz im gonna be real i just wanna have fun here lmao

[ Rynn ] wrote: 4f5l6o

his everything wrote: x243s

So far from this thread alone, without counting the president, I can see that there are 5 progressives (keremaru) against any changes OR for just a few corrections.

(The others are either neutral or I don't know)

((Please correct me if I have made a mistake))

nah cuz im gonna be real i just wanna have fun here lmao

Patatitta wrote: 5t25

no one is stopping you, denizen thread being one way or another shouldn't affect your threads

Yeup, all of this is larp, especially if you're already a Denizen.

Ymir wrote: 2z2l6t

Patatitta wrote: 5t25

no one is stopping you, denizen thread being one way or another shouldn't affect your threads

Yeup, all of this is larp, especially if you're already a Denizen.

At least it's an interesting larp!

active doesn't mean interesting
interesting doesn't mean meaningful
meaningful doesn't mean active