I made a thread explaining the problems with denizen

but as a quick TLDR, the current problems with denizen are:


-no one actually understand how denizenships works

-no one actually agrees on what denizenship is

-denizens are inconsistent over the ages

-denizenships not being given after the time has past

-generations switching for no reason

-Denizen doing more harm than good


parliament discord has gone silent, no one has any good suggestions, and this is something I would really like to fix


so yeah give suggestions

how about not changing anything :3

Ymir wrote: 2z2l6t

how about not changing anything :3

not an option, because as I said it has a lot of problems such as



-no one actually understand how denizenships works

-no one actually agrees on what denizenship is

-denizens are inconsistent over the ages

-denizenships not being given after the time has past

-generations switching for no reason

-Denizen doing more harm than good

I see no issue

Ymir wrote: 2z2l6t

I see no issue

yeah for sure denizen has never created drama and in the case of those dramas happening it has always been solved and not just ignored creating a mountain of unaddressed problems that makes the system almost unusuable

i will try to fix those questions

1. in order to qualify for a denizenship, you must have 8 months of straight activity within OT. every month, new person gets denizen

2. denizenship needs an actual definition. i cant think of one rn, but im sure you guys could because you're an actual team and im just one guy. what you could also do is make multiple definitions and have a vote on which is the definitive definition, which would fix the problem of nobody agreeing on what denizenship is

3. i do not understand this. do you mean that there's not the same amount of denizens in each gen? do you mean that people from older times being mixed in with people from current times?

4. see the second sentence of number one

5. dont understand, do you mean people jumping from generation to generation (like samx500 jumping from gen 7 to gen 6), if thats the case, dont allow that to happen unless a person truly deserves to jump to an older generation

6. people have sort of put this idea of denizen being very important, so maybe clear that up? also the whole system's inconsistency can also contribute to the problem. also, the people who choose denizens should really think twice before adding a denizen, because simply adding a person without any actual thought will contribute to the inconsistency issue (cough cough blushing issue cough cough)

good luck fixing the system i guess

When in doubt, return to tradition.

the tradition being "no tradition, just award it to whoever", not everything has to be objective.

denizen bad should be replace with degenzen degenerate + citizen

sametdze wrote: 1l1a4s

i will try to fix those questions

1. in order to qualify for a denizenship, you must have 8 months of straight activity within OT. every month, new person gets denizen

2. denizenship needs an actual definition. i cant think of one rn, but im sure you guys could because you're an actual team and im just one guy. what you could also do is make multiple definitions and have a vote on which is the definitive definition, which would fix the problem of nobody agreeing on what denizenship is

3. i do not understand this. do you mean that there's not the same amount of denizens in each gen? do you mean that people from older times being mixed in with people from current times?

4. see the second sentence of number one

5. dont understand, do you mean people jumping from generation to generation (like samx500 jumping from gen 7 to gen 6), if thats the case, dont allow that to happen unless a person truly deserves to jump to an older generation

6. people have sort of put this idea of denizen being very important, so maybe clear that up? also the whole system's inconsistency can also contribute to the problem. also, the people who choose denizens should really think twice before adding a denizen, because simply adding a person without any actual thought will contribute to the inconsistency issue (cough cough blushing issue cough cough)

good luck fixing the system i guess

1- So if a lot of people ed OT at the same time, we would have to choose to delay the denizen annoucement of some people because there is a denizen cap per month?, that doesn't seem like a good idea, less when you consider ot may grow in the futuer

2- I mean yeah that's what we're discussing but we cant find a solution

3- read the full thread for more info, but TLDR is that the requirements for denizen have changed over the ages and older denizens have not been adapted to it, so a gen 3 denizen may not acutally qualify in gen 10, which leads to a lot of problems

4- fair

5- no, I mean the switch from gen 9 to gen 10 and stuff like that

6- I mean, even if I try hard to make denizen less prestigious, due to all of the oldfags who will return over time and abraker restless campaign to make denizen a really cool thing, it wouldn't be much of a help tbh

Kobold84 wrote: 4c5ma

When in doubt, return to tradition.

the tradition being "no tradition, just award it to whoever", not everything has to be objective.

the point is to try to make denizens consistent and not cause dramas every single time a change is made or something is added, this wouldn't solve anything, if anything, going full subjective will make things even worse

Jangsoodlor wrote: 4z5t12

denizen bad should be replace with degenzen degenerate + citizen

you can do that yourself

most of these problems can be solved by leaving all that's in the past in the past and start focusing on the future.
as for the denizen selection process, i suggest something like a direct democracy. when somebody has been around for a certain time (like 8 months or something) a vote is started where everybody can vote whether they would like to see them as a denizen or not. resolution of other denizen-related problems should only use this method as a last resort.

imo denizenship shouldn't be a perk (in most cases). from what i have seen, it is a way to the people that made the history of the forum (and the actual events that happened are the chronicles) and it should be repurposed to play that role.

burgernfat wrote: 6p3sh

most of these problems can be solved by leaving all that's in the past in the past and start focusing on the future.
as for the denizen selection process, i suggest something like a direct democracy. when somebody has been around for a certain time (like 8 months or something) a vote is started where everybody can vote whether they would like to see them as a denizen or not. resolution of other denizen-related problems should only use this method as a last resort.

imo denizenship shouldn't be a perk (in most cases). from what i have seen, it is a way to the people that made the history of the forum (and the actual events that happened are the chronicles) and it should be repurposed to play that role.

idk if polling is that great of an idea because it would lead to gatekeeping and favoritism

ain't reading allat. Happy for you tho, or sorry for what happened

MusicRitman wrote: 6e2t2k

ain't reading allat. Happy for you tho, or sorry for what happened

bitch that is why I made a tldr

Patatitta wrote: 5t25

sametdze wrote: 1l1a4s

i will try to fix those questions

1. in order to qualify for a denizenship, you must have 8 months of straight activity within OT. every month, new person gets denizen

2. denizenship needs an actual definition. i cant think of one rn, but im sure you guys could because you're an actual team and im just one guy. what you could also do is make multiple definitions and have a vote on which is the definitive definition, which would fix the problem of nobody agreeing on what denizenship is

3. i do not understand this. do you mean that there's not the same amount of denizens in each gen? do you mean that people from older times being mixed in with people from current times?

4. see the second sentence of number one

5. dont understand, do you mean people jumping from generation to generation (like samx500 jumping from gen 7 to gen 6), if thats the case, dont allow that to happen unless a person truly deserves to jump to an older generation

6. people have sort of put this idea of denizen being very important, so maybe clear that up? also the whole system's inconsistency can also contribute to the problem. also, the people who choose denizens should really think twice before adding a denizen, because simply adding a person without any actual thought will contribute to the inconsistency issue (cough cough blushing issue cough cough)

good luck fixing the system i guess

1- So if a lot of people ed OT at the same time, we would have to choose to delay the denizen annoucement of some people because there is a denizen cap per month?, that doesn't seem like a good idea, less when you consider ot may grow in the futuer

2- I mean yeah that's what we're discussing but we cant find a solution

3- read the full thread for more info, but TLDR is that the requirements for denizen have changed over the ages and older denizens have not been adapted to it, so a gen 3 denizen may not acutally qualify in gen 10, which leads to a lot of problems

4- fair

5- no, I mean the switch from gen 9 to gen 10 and stuff like that

6- I mean, even if I try hard to make denizen less prestigious, due to all of the oldfags who will return over time and abraker restless campaign to make denizen a really cool thing, it wouldn't be much of a help tbh

1. ok then, maybe just change how often denizenshit is rewarded, a week would be far too short and a month would be far too long. maybe new denizen every 15 days?

2. work hard mf

3. you can't really do much about this. time has changed the denizen system, so unless you wanna remove the older denizens and continue with the new selection process or remove the new denizens and go back to the old selection process, (which would cause alot of drama and confusion one way or the other) there's not much possible to fix this.

4. how tf do i argue with "fair"

5. you guys should decide how long a generation lasts for

6. oldfags come and go from what ive seen, i wouldnt worry too much. as for abraker you'll just have to ignore him i guess

Patatitta wrote: 5t25

burgernfat wrote: 6p3sh

most of these problems can be solved by leaving all that's in the past in the past and start focusing on the future.
as for the denizen selection process, i suggest something like a direct democracy. when somebody has been around for a certain time (like 8 months or something) a vote is started where everybody can vote whether they would like to see them as a denizen or not. resolution of other denizen-related problems should only use this method as a last resort.

imo denizenship shouldn't be a perk (in most cases). from what i have seen, it is a way to the people that made the history of the forum (and the actual events that happened are the chronicles) and it should be repurposed to play that role.

idk if polling is that great of an idea because it would lead to gatekeeping and favoritism

this is exactly why i dont agree with polling for denizens

sametdze wrote: 1l1a4s

Patatitta wrote: 5t25

sametdze wrote: 1l1a4s

1. in order to qualify for a denizenship, you must have 8 months of straight activity within OT. every month, new person gets denizen

1- So if a lot of people ed OT at the same time, we would have to choose to delay the denizen annoucement of some people because there is a denizen cap per month?, that doesn't seem like a good idea, less when you consider ot may grow in the futuer

1. ok then, maybe just change how often denizenshit is rewarded, a week would be far too short and a month would be far too long. maybe new denizen every 15 days?

There's no point in scheduling something that is not up to any of us. You can have months without any new dwellers.

Remove it from existence

Scyla wrote: 1d6q5d

Remove it from existence

I would like to but people won't let me

sametdze wrote: 1l1a4s

Patatitta wrote: 5t25

sametdze wrote: 1l1a4s

i will try to fix those questions

1. in order to qualify for a denizenship, you must have 8 months of straight activity within OT. every month, new person gets denizen

2. denizenship needs an actual definition. i cant think of one rn, but im sure you guys could because you're an actual team and im just one guy. what you could also do is make multiple definitions and have a vote on which is the definitive definition, which would fix the problem of nobody agreeing on what denizenship is

3. i do not understand this. do you mean that there's not the same amount of denizens in each gen? do you mean that people from older times being mixed in with people from current times?

4. see the second sentence of number one

5. dont understand, do you mean people jumping from generation to generation (like samx500 jumping from gen 7 to gen 6), if thats the case, dont allow that to happen unless a person truly deserves to jump to an older generation

6. people have sort of put this idea of denizen being very important, so maybe clear that up? also the whole system's inconsistency can also contribute to the problem. also, the people who choose denizens should really think twice before adding a denizen, because simply adding a person without any actual thought will contribute to the inconsistency issue (cough cough blushing issue cough cough)

good luck fixing the system i guess

1- So if a lot of people ed OT at the same time, we would have to choose to delay the denizen annoucement of some people because there is a denizen cap per month?, that doesn't seem like a good idea, less when you consider ot may grow in the futuer

2- I mean yeah that's what we're discussing but we cant find a solution

3- read the full thread for more info, but TLDR is that the requirements for denizen have changed over the ages and older denizens have not been adapted to it, so a gen 3 denizen may not acutally qualify in gen 10, which leads to a lot of problems

4- fair

5- no, I mean the switch from gen 9 to gen 10 and stuff like that

6- I mean, even if I try hard to make denizen less prestigious, due to all of the oldfags who will return over time and abraker restless campaign to make denizen a really cool thing, it wouldn't be much of a help tbh

1. ok then, maybe just change how often denizenshit is rewarded, a week would be far too short and a month would be far too long. maybe new denizen every 15 days?

2. work hard mf

3. you can't really do much about this. time has changed the denizen system, so unless you wanna remove the older denizens and continue with the new selection process or remove the new denizens and go back to the old selection process, (which would cause alot of drama and confusion one way or the other) there's not much possible to fix this.

4. how tf do i argue with "fair"

5. you guys should decide how long a generation lasts for

6. oldfags come and go from what ive seen, i wouldnt worry too much. as for abraker you'll just have to ignore him i guess

1- as kobold said, no point in timegate denizen announcements

2- that's what i'm doing

3- point is that if how denizen used to work was different on the past than it was now, and our definition of denizen has changed over time, with the past not beind adjusted or even clarifying it has been adjusted, people would believe that the old denizens have been chosen under the current rule, and even if we clarified it has been changed, under the modern definition of denizen, they wouldn't be denizens which would make the entire history preservation perspective of the thread be totally useless outside the last couple generations

4- you don't, i'm agreeing with you

5- and we cant really agree on anything and that is why i'm making thos thread

6- idk it's hard and people would hate me if I tried to remove prestige from denizen

3. maybe what you could do is take gens depending on what the requirements were at the time and split them up into either classic or modern. for example, generations that required you to be active for 8 months would be put in "modern gen". idk if this makes sense but its hard to get this idea of mine out

5. come up with some potential gen lengths and run a poll (i could see this having some cons but i think it could work with some fixing)

sametdze wrote: 1l1a4s

3. maybe what you could do is take gens depending on what the requirements were at the time and split them up into either classic or modern. for example, generations that required you to be active for 8 months would be put in "modern gen". idk if this makes sense but its hard to get this idea of mine out

5. come up with some potential gen lengths and run a poll (i could see this having some cons but i think it could work with some fixing)

3- that's actually not a bad idea, will need to talk it with parliament

5- thing is that gens have never really been defined purely by length

I feel like this discussion of fixing denizen is only gonna create more drama ngl

B0ii wrote: 33m13

I feel like this discussion of fixing denizen is only gonna create more drama ngl

I think it's fair to create more drama now to just solve a lot of drama in the future

B0ii wrote: 33m13

I feel like this discussion of fixing denizen is only gonna create more drama ngl

coward

sametdze wrote: 1l1a4s

B0ii wrote: 33m13

I feel like this discussion of fixing denizen is only gonna create more drama ngl

coward

okay fine then big boy

Reyalp51 wrote: 3o2r5d

So one of the things we want is for the denizen nomination to be objective, something that can work is just a minimal time like 8 months since they ed and an exact number of post for example 500
(Like ot eras but without a time limit)

This way theres no problem with the dudes that are active for a while and then go away or debates on who should or should not be a denizen

I still think this is a good idea

i when i got denizen after only 3 months of posting

that was really funny

patatitta what's your idea

DM FOR MUTUAL wrote: 6z15h

patatitta what's your idea

( ￣ー￣)

Reyalp51 wrote: 3o2r5d

Reyalp51 wrote: 3o2r5d

So one of the things we want is for the denizen nomination to be objective, something that can work is just a minimal time like 8 months since they ed and an exact number of post for example 500
(Like ot eras but without a time limit)

This way theres no problem with the dudes that are active for a while and then go away or debates on who should or should not be a denizen

I still think this is a good idea

as long as we can define how generations change and update every previous denizen it may work

DM FOR MUTUAL wrote: 6z15h

patatitta what's your idea

delete it

What do you guys think, the changes of how denizen is given should affect old s or not?

Maybe we can get real parliamenty, someone writes a bill, parliament discusses, makes changes and votes on it, then we have a public ballot if it es through parliament

Like fr what does the parliament even do

remove denizenship, easy solution, problem go away

What even is this larping and bickering over an arbitrary nothingburger status.

Make a proper library/archive thread of cool, funny or noteworthy threads, posts or other contributions.
Anyone highlighted in this thread is cool, while anybody else is "who?".

boat wrote: 627233

What even is this larping and bickering over an arbitrary nothingburger status.

Make a proper library/archive thread of cool, funny or noteworthy threads, posts or other contributions.
Anyone highlighted in this thread is cool, while anybody else is "who?".

welcome to the postmodern OT landscape

this is how we entertain ourselves

be careful saying that denizen is shit since that gives me more justification for deleting it

denizen is shit

boat wrote: 627233

What even is this larping and bickering over an arbitrary nothingburger status.

Make a proper library/archive thread of cool, funny or noteworthy threads, posts or other contributions.
Anyone highlighted in this thread is cool, while anybody else is "who?".

That's what Denizen was until all these systems, just a list of people who were active and made cool threads. Every larp parliament has tried to make some sort of system for it (which I'm now starting to see looks stupid from the outside), but this time it's just taking that to another level with their whining.

Nothing is wrong about keeping it the way it is, who cares if there's a little weeklong spat over it here and there, it makes things interesting.

i never actually care about political shit but removing denizen doesn't really set well with me for some reason and i dont even know why. i do agree that it is quite subjective and it does need some rules to qualify someone as a denizen and it MUST be followed. i also feel like the generation isn't really explained clearly by itself. maybe it's just be who doesn't wanna read, but i do want a clear explanation (if there are none as of now). "how long does a generation last?" "what is a generation" etc.

a bit of a bonus point, idk if anyone has seen this but i feel like it wouldn't be fair for someone to be active for a certain amount of time to get a denizen and after that, they're gone. for me, denizenship is actually something that is given to people that are actually dedicated to OT. this is just my opinion though

yeah that's why I don't delete denizen

A straightforward solution to resolve the drama is to prohibit Patatitta from discussing the denizen.

Manishh wrote: 2k5q58

A straightforward solution to resolve the drama is to prohibit Patatitta from discussing the denizen.

Ymir wrote: 2z2l6t

Manishh wrote: 2k5q58

A straightforward solution to resolve the drama is to prohibit Patatitta from discussing the denizen.

Patatitta wrote: 5t25

Scyla wrote: 1d6q5d

Remove it from existence

I would like to but people won't let me

sametdze wrote: 1l1a4s

Patatitta wrote: 5t25

sametdze wrote: 1l1a4s

i will try to fix those questions

1. in order to qualify for a denizenship, you must have 8 months of straight activity within OT. every month, new person gets denizen

2. denizenship needs an actual definition. i cant think of one rn, but im sure you guys could because you're an actual team and im just one guy. what you could also do is make multiple definitions and have a vote on which is the definitive definition, which would fix the problem of nobody agreeing on what denizenship is

3. i do not understand this. do you mean that there's not the same amount of denizens in each gen? do you mean that people from older times being mixed in with people from current times?

4. see the second sentence of number one

5. dont understand, do you mean people jumping from generation to generation (like samx500 jumping from gen 7 to gen 6), if thats the case, dont allow that to happen unless a person truly deserves to jump to an older generation

6. people have sort of put this idea of denizen being very important, so maybe clear that up? also the whole system's inconsistency can also contribute to the problem. also, the people who choose denizens should really think twice before adding a denizen, because simply adding a person without any actual thought will contribute to the inconsistency issue (cough cough blushing issue cough cough)

good luck fixing the system i guess

1- So if a lot of people ed OT at the same time, we would have to choose to delay the denizen annoucement of some people because there is a denizen cap per month?, that doesn't seem like a good idea, less when you consider ot may grow in the futuer

2- I mean yeah that's what we're discussing but we cant find a solution

3- read the full thread for more info, but TLDR is that the requirements for denizen have changed over the ages and older denizens have not been adapted to it, so a gen 3 denizen may not acutally qualify in gen 10, which leads to a lot of problems

4- fair

5- no, I mean the switch from gen 9 to gen 10 and stuff like that

6- I mean, even if I try hard to make denizen less prestigious, due to all of the oldfags who will return over time and abraker restless campaign to make denizen a really cool thing, it wouldn't be much of a help tbh

1. ok then, maybe just change how often denizenshit is rewarded, a week would be far too short and a month would be far too long. maybe new denizen every 15 days?

2. work hard mf

3. you can't really do much about this. time has changed the denizen system, so unless you wanna remove the older denizens and continue with the new selection process or remove the new denizens and go back to the old selection process, (which would cause alot of drama and confusion one way or the other) there's not much possible to fix this.

4. how tf do i argue with "fair"

5. you guys should decide how long a generation lasts for

6. oldfags come and go from what ive seen, i wouldnt worry too much. as for abraker you'll just have to ignore him i guess

1- as kobold said, no point in timegate denizen announcements

2- that's what i'm doing

3- point is that if how denizen used to work was different on the past than it was now, and our definition of denizen has changed over time, with the past not beind adjusted or even clarifying it has been adjusted, people would believe that the old denizens have been chosen under the current rule, and even if we clarified it has been changed, under the modern definition of denizen, they wouldn't be denizens which would make the entire history preservation perspective of the thread be totally useless outside the last couple generations

4- you don't, i'm agreeing with you

5- and we cant really agree on anything and that is why i'm making thos thread

6- idk it's hard and people would hate me if I tried to remove prestige from denizen

What? Patatita? Scared from hate? This isn't patatita, who are you. Where is our patatita

Scyla wrote: 1d6q5d

Patatitta wrote: 5t25

Scyla wrote: 1d6q5d

Remove it from existence

I would like to but people won't let me

sametdze wrote: 1l1a4s

Patatitta wrote: 5t25

sametdze wrote: 1l1a4s

i will try to fix those questions

1. in order to qualify for a denizenship, you must have 8 months of straight activity within OT. every month, new person gets denizen

2. denizenship needs an actual definition. i cant think of one rn, but im sure you guys could because you're an actual team and im just one guy. what you could also do is make multiple definitions and have a vote on which is the definitive definition, which would fix the problem of nobody agreeing on what denizenship is

3. i do not understand this. do you mean that there's not the same amount of denizens in each gen? do you mean that people from older times being mixed in with people from current times?

4. see the second sentence of number one

5. dont understand, do you mean people jumping from generation to generation (like samx500 jumping from gen 7 to gen 6), if thats the case, dont allow that to happen unless a person truly deserves to jump to an older generation

6. people have sort of put this idea of denizen being very important, so maybe clear that up? also the whole system's inconsistency can also contribute to the problem. also, the people who choose denizens should really think twice before adding a denizen, because simply adding a person without any actual thought will contribute to the inconsistency issue (cough cough blushing issue cough cough)

good luck fixing the system i guess

1- So if a lot of people ed OT at the same time, we would have to choose to delay the denizen annoucement of some people because there is a denizen cap per month?, that doesn't seem like a good idea, less when you consider ot may grow in the futuer

2- I mean yeah that's what we're discussing but we cant find a solution

3- read the full thread for more info, but TLDR is that the requirements for denizen have changed over the ages and older denizens have not been adapted to it, so a gen 3 denizen may not acutally qualify in gen 10, which leads to a lot of problems

4- fair

5- no, I mean the switch from gen 9 to gen 10 and stuff like that

6- I mean, even if I try hard to make denizen less prestigious, due to all of the oldfags who will return over time and abraker restless campaign to make denizen a really cool thing, it wouldn't be much of a help tbh

1. ok then, maybe just change how often denizenshit is rewarded, a week would be far too short and a month would be far too long. maybe new denizen every 15 days?

2. work hard mf

3. you can't really do much about this. time has changed the denizen system, so unless you wanna remove the older denizens and continue with the new selection process or remove the new denizens and go back to the old selection process, (which would cause alot of drama and confusion one way or the other) there's not much possible to fix this.

4. how tf do i argue with "fair"

5. you guys should decide how long a generation lasts for

6. oldfags come and go from what ive seen, i wouldnt worry too much. as for abraker you'll just have to ignore him i guess

1- as kobold said, no point in timegate denizen announcements

2- that's what i'm doing

3- point is that if how denizen used to work was different on the past than it was now, and our definition of denizen has changed over time, with the past not beind adjusted or even clarifying it has been adjusted, people would believe that the old denizens have been chosen under the current rule, and even if we clarified it has been changed, under the modern definition of denizen, they wouldn't be denizens which would make the entire history preservation perspective of the thread be totally useless outside the last couple generations

4- you don't, i'm agreeing with you

5- and we cant really agree on anything and that is why i'm making thos thread

6- idk it's hard and people would hate me if I tried to remove prestige from denizen

What? Patatita? Scared from hate? This isn't patatita, who are you. Where is our patatita

petition for the potato man to start a mass-gencide on ot

Scyla wrote: 1d6q5d

Patatitta wrote: 5t25

Scyla wrote: 1d6q5d

Remove it from existence

I would like to but people won't let me

sametdze wrote: 1l1a4s

Patatitta wrote: 5t25

sametdze wrote: 1l1a4s

i will try to fix those questions

1. in order to qualify for a denizenship, you must have 8 months of straight activity within OT. every month, new person gets denizen

2. denizenship needs an actual definition. i cant think of one rn, but im sure you guys could because you're an actual team and im just one guy. what you could also do is make multiple definitions and have a vote on which is the definitive definition, which would fix the problem of nobody agreeing on what denizenship is

3. i do not understand this. do you mean that there's not the same amount of denizens in each gen? do you mean that people from older times being mixed in with people from current times?

4. see the second sentence of number one

5. dont understand, do you mean people jumping from generation to generation (like samx500 jumping from gen 7 to gen 6), if thats the case, dont allow that to happen unless a person truly deserves to jump to an older generation

6. people have sort of put this idea of denizen being very important, so maybe clear that up? also the whole system's inconsistency can also contribute to the problem. also, the people who choose denizens should really think twice before adding a denizen, because simply adding a person without any actual thought will contribute to the inconsistency issue (cough cough blushing issue cough cough)

good luck fixing the system i guess

1- So if a lot of people ed OT at the same time, we would have to choose to delay the denizen annoucement of some people because there is a denizen cap per month?, that doesn't seem like a good idea, less when you consider ot may grow in the futuer

2- I mean yeah that's what we're discussing but we cant find a solution

3- read the full thread for more info, but TLDR is that the requirements for denizen have changed over the ages and older denizens have not been adapted to it, so a gen 3 denizen may not acutally qualify in gen 10, which leads to a lot of problems

4- fair

5- no, I mean the switch from gen 9 to gen 10 and stuff like that

6- I mean, even if I try hard to make denizen less prestigious, due to all of the oldfags who will return over time and abraker restless campaign to make denizen a really cool thing, it wouldn't be much of a help tbh

1. ok then, maybe just change how often denizenshit is rewarded, a week would be far too short and a month would be far too long. maybe new denizen every 15 days?

2. work hard mf

3. you can't really do much about this. time has changed the denizen system, so unless you wanna remove the older denizens and continue with the new selection process or remove the new denizens and go back to the old selection process, (which would cause alot of drama and confusion one way or the other) there's not much possible to fix this.

4. how tf do i argue with "fair"

5. you guys should decide how long a generation lasts for

6. oldfags come and go from what ive seen, i wouldnt worry too much. as for abraker you'll just have to ignore him i guess

1- as kobold said, no point in timegate denizen announcements

2- that's what i'm doing

3- point is that if how denizen used to work was different on the past than it was now, and our definition of denizen has changed over time, with the past not beind adjusted or even clarifying it has been adjusted, people would believe that the old denizens have been chosen under the current rule, and even if we clarified it has been changed, under the modern definition of denizen, they wouldn't be denizens which would make the entire history preservation perspective of the thread be totally useless outside the last couple generations

4- you don't, i'm agreeing with you

5- and we cant really agree on anything and that is why i'm making thos thread

6- idk it's hard and people would hate me if I tried to remove prestige from denizen

What? Patatita? Scared from hate? This isn't patatita, who are you. Where is our patatita

nah don't worry i've got a solution and i'm going to push for it hard now

kinda a mix of what samedtze and reyalp said


gens as they currently stand are no more, instead, each gens correspond to a different ruling of denizen, so all the denizens that got added while the requirement was 3 months would all fall under the same gen, all the ones that required contribution would fall under the same gen, etc. We will start a new gen that just requires of 8 months and 500 posts and nothing more

that would:

While not consistent over time, we represent ot history better by showing how the definition for denizen has changed over time
We abolish lore or just subjectivity being the sole reason for like half the generation switches
No gatekeeping or favoritism happening in denizen selection
It's a good system on the long run
Everyone gets what denizen is as it would be explained on each gens description
no subjectivity = no drama

ahhhh its time for meeeeeeeeeee.

patatitta, being leader and making decisions that not only reflect you, but impact an entire ecosystem means that your choices and decisions will not be liked and some people will vehemently hate you.

Manishh wrote: 2k5q58

A straightforward solution to resolve the drama is to prohibit Patatitta from discussing the denizen.

say that louder manishh, you ate.

give me denizen, this is how you solve the problem 👍

Manishh wrote: 2k5q58

A straightforward solution to resolve the drama is to prohibit Patatitta from discussing the denizen.

You voted for him, don't you?

Corne2Plum3 wrote: 3y1z1p

Manishh wrote: 2k5q58

A straightforward solution to resolve the drama is to prohibit Patatitta from discussing the denizen.

You voted for him, don't you?

hell na

this has probably been said but here is my second take

make denizenship purely subjective. the catch is that it has absolutely zero perks attached to it, that way, denizenship turns to what i described in my first post, just a way to people that were/are a part of the community. with this, all the problems go away, because to be a "denizen" is no longer anything special and people stop caring whether they are denizens or not.

from what i understand, you are trying to change the core principles of denizenship itself, to transform it from a subjective to an objective system. i also want to add the fact that by making a clear, objective requirement for becoming denizen, like "300 posts" or whatever, it is like encouraging people to make a lot of posts, most of will probably not be of good quality, just to get to the denizen title. having a subjective requirement, such as "be memorable" or "be recognizable" encourages higher quality and overall makes the board more enjoyable for everyone.

who care
dont let this distract u guys from the fact that this guy is literally a potato
is like if i let my pet rock become president

Blushing wrote: 5x575

ahhhh its time for meeeeeeeeeee.

patatitta, being leader and making decisions that not only reflect you, but impact an entire ecosystem means that your choices and decisions will not be liked and some people will vehemently hate you.

---- To rework the system means you will be Sisyphus. Though you want this thing fleshed out and changed, somehow, someway so go against the grain and propose what YOU want to do. Whether people like it or not.

My main gripe with this post is this. Everything else was pretty sound advice, including the council to elect denizens and the honorary forefathers comments. But the main reason why this thread is such a hotspot for post activity is because people don't like what Patatitta wants to do with denizenship. People will give backlash, and there will be vocal reception simply because OT is a forum. If Patatitta followed this "Whether you like it or not" mentality, a lot of people would probably suggest that the OT!Gov be abolished, and this subforum return to the days before OT!Gov. And though it doesn't relate to the main point in any capacity, comparing him with Sisyphus doesn't work in Patatitta's favor here, either; since it can be assumed that Sisyphus is pushing a boulder up an exponentially growing mountain, given he can never climb it. If Patatitta wanted to enforce his ideals, he'd essentially be cutting under the mountain and pushing his boulder that way, thus undermining the struggles of being an active President, thus highlighting a legacy of ignoring the community and endorsing an autonomous authority. And nobody who has been in OT long enough to know even a little bit about how this place works would want that.

burgernfat wrote: 6p3sh

make denizenship purely subjective. the catch is that it has absolutely zero perks attached to it, that way, denizenship turns to what i described in my first post, just a way to people that were/are a part of the community.

That's kinda what it was already. From my POV, people who get denizen are just new of the cool kids club.

tbh just a number of post only isn't a good idea, as post farming would grant you denizen. It should be another ingredient, such as post quality or how their threads are.

removing objective milestones for denizenship allows for it to truly be the "honorary" and prestigious title that everyone wants, or seems to desire.

keremaru wrote: 3r6e2u

stuff in pink

Sisyphus finds meaning and life in what he does. Sometimes the struggle is better than the reward. Seeing something come to fruition that you have fought tooth and nail for is arguably what a politician should do, whether you like their ideals or not.

If OT!Gov is abolished... nothign changes.

It would be as if it was last year or the year before. This is the only government that has proposed meaningful change and has been useful to some degree, whether you like the changes or not.

Im sorry that you dont like what patatitta is going to do or is trying to do to denizenship. You lot are so attached to a honorary title in a rhythm clicking game for a forum that is mostly shit post and shenanigans. People being gatekept from participating in certain events or activities because they dont have it is insane, to name a few: Corne's Collab, OT elections, Pretty much any Manishh event. It has become less about "hey this dude is historic!" and more like spongebob trying to get into the salty spitoon, its humorous.

There are actual things that can be done, like reducing the objective criteria so people can't complain about how they meet a criteria and it is strictly based on overall feeling. Post quality, amount, and frequency can be helpful factors yes, but to meet a criteria of like 300 posts in 8 months is stupid because I can just spam the front page with remotely relevant posts and be fine and then get denizen based on that, it just isnt a good metric. A good metric would be to genuinely ask the council "What do you from blushing without needing to look at their OT history?" If they sayu negative things or "not much" then its pretty clear I was not historic, ya know?

create a separate entity of the government that doesnt report to them but sends them their list of people for denizen then the president, and only the president, signs off on them: yes or no.

patatitta, if people genuinely hate you for a title that holds too many meanings behind it being taken away from them, then they need to touch grass and that it really doesnt matter this much and it isnt that deep. Its not as if denizen allows them any privilege outside roleplaying in certain threads.

Uh @abraker we should probably make a constitution

Blushing wrote: 5x575

removing objective milestones for denizenship allows for it to truly be the "honorary" and prestigious title that everyone wants, or seems to desire.

keremaru wrote: 3r6e2u

stuff in pink

Sisyphus finds meaning and life in what he does. Sometimes the struggle is better than the reward. Seeing something come to fruition that you have fought tooth and nail for is arguably what a politician should do, whether you like their ideals or not.

If OT!Gov is abolished... nothign changes.

It would be as if it was last year or the year before. This is the only government that has proposed meaningful change and has been useful to some degree, whether you like the changes or not.

Im sorry that you dont like what patatitta is going to do or is trying to do to denizenship. You lot are so attached to a honorary title in a rhythm clicking game for a forum that is mostly shit post and shenanigans. People being gatekept from participating in certain events or activities because they dont have it is insane, to name a few: Corne's Collab, OT elections, Pretty much any Manishh event. It has become less about "hey this dude is historic!" and more like spongebob trying to get into the salty spitoon, its humorous.

There are actual things that can be done, like reducing the objective criteria so people can't complain about how they meet a criteria and it is strictly based on overall feeling. Post quality, amount, and frequency can be helpful factors yes, but to meet a criteria of like 300 posts in 8 months is stupid because I can just spam the front page with remotely relevant posts and be fine and then get denizen based on that, it just isnt a good metric. A good metric would be to genuinely ask the council "What do you from blushing without needing to look at their OT history?" If they sayu negative things or "not much" then its pretty clear I was not historic, ya know?

create a separate entity of the government that doesnt report to them but sends them their list of people for denizen then the president, and only the president, signs off on them: yes or no.

patatitta, if people genuinely hate you for a title that holds too many meanings behind it being taken away from them, then they need to touch grass and that it really doesnt matter this much and it isnt that deep. Its not as if denizen allows them any privilege outside roleplaying in certain threads.

OF COURSE I'M ATTACHED TO A RHYTHM GAME FORUM, HERE PPL ACCEPT I HAVE AN OBSESSION WITH THE TRUE OWNER IF THE WORLD

Blushing wrote: 5x575

keremaru wrote: 3r6e2u

stuff in pink

stuff that isn't annoying to read

Actually...

I'll it that gatekeeping activities to denizens only is pretty cringe, but I still stand by my opinion that it's basically a cool kids club. Though I was blindsided by just looking at the present OT and not taking a retrospect at what denizenship actually implied for everybody else, especially since I've had it for way too long. There is a problem with how denizenship is treated in OT, especially by people who view it as a prestigious status when it's nothing more than a "hey you're cool here's a title". There's way too much weight around denizenship as it stands, and after a rescoping of my previous stances, there is something that has to be done about the weight of denizenship. I'm still mainly against the whole eradication of the system, but after that 'honorary title' statement, I began to realize just how ively attached I was to something that I didn't really work all that hard for, in contrast to what people have to do now. To be fair, in OT at least, I'm nothing more than an old man trying to keep relevant in a landscape that's changed drastically from what I've been used to, for the better or otherwise.

tl;dr: yea fair enough tbh, i didn't know you were chill like that

Polyspora wrote: 4i695

Uh @abraker we should probably make a constitution

There is.

Why is there so much complaints about Denizen now all of a sudden? This is like 10x the normal rate. Changing something is worse than not changing anything at all, you lot are just breaking something that was inherently subjective and messed up to begin with. Nothing can be fixed, it can only go down from here on.

Nuuskamuikkunen wrote: 6f1wj

Polyspora wrote: 4i695

Uh @abraker we should probably make a constitution

There is.

well... is there one that ACTUALLY PUTS SOMETHING ABOUT DENIZENSHIP INTO SET STONE?

this does not need any change

too late we're probably just going to implement what I said earlier skill issue everyone

hahaha this guy

Ymir wrote: 2z2l6t

hahaha this guy

Patatitta wrote: 5t25

too late we're probably just going to implement what I said earlier skill issue everyone

Literally biggest fuck you to someone that actually gave and you refused to just comment or even talk about it with me.

Blushing wrote: 5x575

Im sorry that you dont like what patatitta is going to do or is trying to do to denizenship. You lot are so attached to a honorary title in a rhythm clicking game for a forum that is mostly shit post and shenanigans. People being gatekept from participating in certain events or activities because they dont have it is insane, to name a few: Corne's Collab, OT elections, Pretty much any Manishh event. It has become less about "hey this dude is historic!" and more like spongebob trying to get into the salty spitoon, its humorous.

Corne's collab allowed for active dwellers.

OT elections sure, but it is something done for older dwellers (denizens).

Manishh events are rare and there are recent examples of his events that also allowed for everyone to enter (they flopped in general, but let's not talk about that).

Blushing wrote: 5x575

Patatitta wrote: 5t25

too late we're probably just going to implement what I said earlier skill issue everyone

Literally biggest fuck you to someone that actually gave and you refused to just comment or even talk about it with me.

i'm sorry but y'all are just plainly wrong and i'm kinda tired to actually respond



1- "Choose another team for selecting denizenship"

Those are tasks of the gov, but I was refeering more to if there should be a more systematic way to prevent us on sleeping on it or whateever


2- "What does denizenship mean?"

We have ended up on a definition that is more on the lines "someone who is in the OT community"


3- "making it not subjective is a bad idea"

For 90% of it's lifespan denizenship hasn't been subjective, the initial ruling by abraker only required 3 months of activity and nothing more, then it got reworked to require more time, and after that, ghouly reworked it to require some sort of contribution to OT, however, the parliament was slow and this basically wasn't enforced. So yeah, OT has NEVER had a subjective ruling over denizen and shit has always been fine. It also s our definition of denizen.


4- "It doesn't need change"

Excluding this one, in the last 4 years the denizen system has been reworked twice, and even after the latest rework, there has still been drama and complaints which were never solved, just ignored. Take for example the dramas surrounding the switches in generation. Not only that, but i'm trying to avoid things like the blushing situation happening again, where the parliament fucks up and then they make a poll to see if they undo their mistake, because they don't need a poll to actually run shit but they do need one to revert it apparently. This system should prevent a lot of the drama since it makes it harder for us the government to actually pull off things like that.


5- "You can't push this change or else there would be a revolution"

I said I was going to do this exact thing, and I got voted in by mayority, not only that, but then I ran the parliament elections, and the people who ended up winning mostly these ideas, if you're now mad about it, it's your fault.


6- You guys are really fucking biased.

Like really, i'm sorry blushing but I don't know if you aegree with me because you agree with my idea or because you think licking my asshole will grant you denizen, not only that but I feel people like ymir were already against me even from before this, so I don't know how seriously can I take the criticism torwards this. Whenever you consider a lot of the criticism is just missguided as I said with the "denizen is subjective!!!!" thing, I just can't take you seriously

69th post

drama funny

Patatitta wrote: 5t25

Blushing wrote: 5x575

Patatitta wrote: 5t25

too late we're probably just going to implement what I said earlier skill issue everyone

Literally biggest fuck you to someone that actually gave and you refused to just comment or even talk about it with me.

i'm sorry but y'all are just plainly wrong and i'm kinda tired to actually respond



1- "Choose another team for selecting denizenship"

Those are tasks of the gov, but I was refeering more to if there should be a more systematic way to prevent us on sleeping on it or whateever


2- "What does denizenship mean?"

We have ended up on a definition that is more on the lines "someone who is in the OT community"


3- "making it not subjective is a bad idea"

For 90% of it's lifespan denizenship hasn't been subjective, the initial ruling by abraker only required 3 months of activity and nothing more, then it got reworked to require more time, and after that, ghouly reworked it to require some sort of contribution to OT, however, the parliament was slow and this basically wasn't enforced. So yeah, OT has NEVER had a subjective ruling over denizen and shit has always been fine. It also s our definition of denizen.


4- "It doesn't need change"

Excluding this one, in the last 4 years the denizen system has been reworked twice, and even after the latest rework, there has still been drama and complaints which were never solved, just ignored. Take for example the dramas surrounding the switches in generation. Not only that, but i'm trying to avoid things like the blushing situation happening again, where the parliament fucks up and then they make a poll to see if they undo their mistake, because they don't need a poll to actually run shit but they do need one to revert it apparently. This system should prevent a lot of the drama since it makes it harder for us the government to actually pull off things like that.


5- "You can't push this change or else there would be a revolution"

I said I was going to do this exact thing, and I got voted in by mayority, not only that, but then I ran the parliament elections, and the people who ended up winning mostly these ideas, if you're now mad about it, it's your fault.


6- You guys are really fucking biased.

Like really, i'm sorry blushing but I don't know if you aegree with me because you agree with my idea or because you think licking my asshole will grant you denizen, not only that but I feel people like ymir were already against me even from before this, so I don't know how seriously can I take the criticism torwards this. Whenever you consider a lot of the criticism is just missguided as I said with the "denizen is subjective!!!!" thing, I just can't take you seriously

We'll go through it.

1. Systematic includes making another body so you dont sleep on it, I dont exactly understand why you are the rest of government are against this idea.

2. Ok at least there is a definition you guys are going to stick to.

3. objectivity is just going to ruin it because people can and will complain, but it sounds like your newer version of what you want is somewhat going into this way?

4. i've never said it didn't need change?

5. yes but you explicitly have said things about being "scared" or hesitant about how people will react to your change, I simply said you either do or don't. Whichever you do is something that someone isn't going to like so might as well do what you want to do.

6. If you think i'm going to brown nose you, you are sadly mistaken. You are asking the public about their opinions of a system. I have said multiple times I do not care about getting denizen, but that doesn't mean I can't give input on that.

My joke posts are very far and inbetween because Im not going to joke with the vast majority of players that I don't care about. If I am giving input on things in this subforum its because I am actually thinking and wanting conversation not you insinuating that i licking your asshole.

There is a certain jaded ideal you get from being within the group than being outside, and that is what I wanted to bring to attention. With every group: GMT, NAT, LVD, BN, DEV, etc. there is a certain aspect that everyone becomes accustomed to and that you don't individually see issues that the outside can see or want to bring to attention.

All i wanted was a conversation and I posted both of those in due time for you to reply, but then you simply had to take it in a way that I'm "licking your asshole" for a title that grants nothing. Be so fucking for real. If im brown nosing anything it is not for this subforum, and especially not for you.

That's a lot of text.

Karmine wrote: 6c5h1b

That's a lot of text.

thankfully i am a vulpix so i cant read

ColdTooth wrote: 1g2nr

Karmine wrote: 6c5h1b

That's a lot of text.

thankfully i am a vulpix so i cant read

I'm not a vulpix but I'm too fucking stupid to read

I am glad I did the bare minimum in my presidency.

Nuuskamuikkunen wrote: 6f1wj

I am glad I did the bare minimum in my presidency.

Former president bad, current president good.

If you guys just had voted for me, we would have been doing a orgy event at this point

Just slowly let it decay...

Polyspora wrote: 4i695

Uh @abraker we should probably make a constitution

done community/forums/topics/1021462

B0ii wrote: 33m13

Nuuskamuikkunen wrote: 6f1wj

Polyspora wrote: 4i695

Uh @abraker we should probably make a constitution

There is.

well... is there one that ACTUALLY PUTS SOMETHING ABOUT DENIZENSHIP INTO SET STONE?

V. Denizens may acquire denizenship if they fulfill the current requirements stated by the Royal Society, which can be found at
community/forums/topics/615764

until community/forums/topics/1276058

03/19/2021
Time requirement for denizenship increased from 2 months to 8 months

03/19/2021
Remove the 10 page post history requirement to becoming a denizen.

03/19/2021
Formation of the DAT:
Future OT denizens will have to atleast be in OT for 8 months before their denizenship can be reviewed by the Denizen Approval Team (DAT).
Exceptions to this rule will be decided by the DAT on certain specific cases, when the 8 months requirement is not suitable to judge an individual's denizenship.
The DAT will consists of current Parliament and will hold votes regarding the inclusion of a denizen to OT.
Once every 1.5 to 2 months, or whenever there's an influx of new denizens, the DAT will hold meetings to review new denizenships.

So basically right now, officially, parliament votes on who becomes denizen. Heeyyy elections matter!

Karmine wrote: 6c5h1b

That's a lot of text.

thank god i dont have the motivation to read:3

The fix is

Everyone is a denizen

abraker wrote: 6cx2d

Polyspora wrote: 4i695

Uh @abraker we should probably make a constitution

done community/forums/topics/1021462

So you are saying there has been multiple breaking of constitution. Election not being happen last year and the requirement for voting in the election being changed.

Manishh wrote: 2k5q58

abraker wrote: 6cx2d

Polyspora wrote: 4i695

Uh @abraker we should probably make a constitution

done community/forums/topics/1021462

So you are saying there has been multiple breaking of constitution. Election not being happen last year and the requirement for voting in the election being changed.

Nobody enforces it so yeah

cum

-

Cerno wrote: 6g571s

cum

Polyspora wrote: 4i695

Manishh wrote: 2k5q58

abraker wrote: 6cx2d

Polyspora wrote: 4i695

Uh @abraker we should probably make a constitution

done community/forums/topics/1021462

So you are saying there has been multiple breaking of constitution. Election not being happen last year and the requirement for voting in the election being changed.

Nobody enforces it so yeah

You are saying like it was not your responsibility to apply it last year

Manishh wrote: 2k5q58

Polyspora wrote: 4i695

Manishh wrote: 2k5q58

abraker wrote: 6cx2d

Polyspora wrote: 4i695

Uh @abraker we should probably make a constitution

done community/forums/topics/1021462

So you are saying there has been multiple breaking of constitution. Election not being happen last year and the requirement for voting in the election being changed.

Nobody enforces it so yeah

You are saying like it was not your responsibility to apply it last year

It wasn't, we weren't even the real parliament. Only promise we made was to continue denizenship.

Be the change you want --Abraker sensei

also, fun fact: the 8 month requirement was what penguin pushed in 2021, we only increased the post requirement.

8 months is good who is complaining about that?

Ymir wrote: 2z2l6t

8 months is good who is complaining about that?

cephaphysic is, maybe if you read the thread you would understand stuff

man i miss penguin i hope he's doing good now

Quick post a gif of penguins ass!

Patatitta wrote: 5t25

Ymir wrote: 2z2l6t

8 months is good who is complaining about that?

cephaphysic is, maybe if you read the thread you would understand stuff

I had an intelligent response to this, just letting you know.

So far from this thread alone, without counting the president, I can see that there are 5 progressives (keremaru) against any changes OR for just a few corrections.

(The others are either neutral or I don't know)

((Please correct me if I have made a mistake))