abraker wrote: 6cx2d

To level this uncertainty off, I ask you to analyze your own posts and come up with a detailed read on yourself.

Just because you're projecting yourself onto me? There's not enough time for me to analyze my posts and I don't think it's necessary. Also I don't particularly feel like it because I don't think it would help the game in any way.

Hika wrote: 2p2929

I dont want scum to come along and 'accidentally' hammer abraker also. Would be dumb for anyone else to vote him without a complete town decision. hope you see where im coming from

I didn't ask why you're not voting for abraker, I asked why you need votecount for read. I realize this is old, but that's not exactly what I asked.

Anyhow, Hika is right. Zekks might have been roleclaiming in a dumb way and we just took it too seriously. Especially me. It just rubbed me off really wrong so yeah, I think voting for them was a mistake. Honestly, I just did it to get them to talk but considering they completely disappeared it was a mistake of mine to forget to unvote them.

Considering abraker is L-2 and the final day is almost over, that worries me though.

abraker wrote: 6cx2d

Why not both? Why not because it was worrying not seeing a response for that long with the day nearing end and why not because suicide D1 is an darn awful way to go regardless what alignment I am? I would be lying if I said that I am not looking for reasons to justify changing my vote to someone else. What might happen is that I change my vote a few hours before the day is up, and that will surely make me look like scum even more. I am digging myself further into this hole as I post, but what to do?

What do you mean "why not both"? That implies that you don't want to flip scum but at the same time you want to move the game forward. Is that what you're trying to say here?

I don't know what the hell were you expecting, man. Don't make dumb promises like self-voting.

Foxtrot wrote: 2l233p

What do you mean "why not both"? That implies that you don't want to flip scum but at the same time you want to move the game forward. Is that what you're trying to say here?

I don't want to be voted off D1 and I don't want things to let be since there is still a lot left to analyze.

johnmedina999 wrote: 3r3a6s

abraker wrote: 6cx2d

@John
Your reads?

1. I don't know much about Zexion, or Hika, so I cannot say anything for them.
2. I can't say much about redo either, but due to his last post, I would say he's town, but I'm not too sure.
3. Foxtrot is also town to me, her posts analyze all players very well and she pushes people to give info, I don't think that's associated as scum.
4. As abraker pointed out, they both post similarly, very neutral, very analytic. Personally, I don't like this "poker face" style of play because there is really nothing to analyze; abraker played like this last game as well, and he got lynched, and he flipped town, so I don't know about these two.
   abraker, however, with his self-vote, is starting to flip towards the mafia side, because of the reasons previously posted. I will have my eye on you.
5. Zekks is lazy and may be either town or mafia.
6. Lincolm is leaning towards scum, he is very defensive explaining his actions and doesn't really offer

ng else.[/list]

Oh shit dawnsday isn't on this read! What gives?

Must've got messed up with the list. He's with you: "they both post similarly".

I mean if you do threaten to lynch Hika I'm gonna unvote, because she's my townread... That's not a very good associative read there bud.

oh my god, i'm here i'm so srry

I had emergency things come up! I'll read thread sometime soon

Ace Timing wrote: 36512t

I mean if you do threaten to lynch Hika I'm gonna unvote, because she's my townread... That's not a very good associative read there bud.

Well why is Hika your town read? It still puts me off that hika needed vote count for reads. Hammer or no hammer, vote count should be an honest opinion. If the person needs one vote to lynch and you think that person is scum, you need to say it so that person and other can respond to it.

>He had the choice not to bring this up, and it is one of the posts that made me thing Dawnsday might be scum. I am not sure if Ace Timing picked up upon how much Dawnsday was trying to push zekks lynch.

I was ignoring Dawnsday for the most part.

>I provide senarios for hypothetical cases to make sense of the read, but this fails to make much connections. False scum hunting and pretend behavior rarely says anything, if at all. As I said in a post before, I assume any scum tactic appears as townie action. Instead I search for persistent action, base motives, connections between interactions and draw hypothetical scenarios for them to draw conclusions from. I am basically laying out the deck of cards faced down and evaluating what the state of the game might be if I flip one over. This fails to tell anything and is just mere finger pointing.

With the logic of "scum won't do scummy things," your scumhunting is extremely limited. Scumhunting is a townie action, and thus it's scum's prerogative to fake doing so; fake scumhunting is inherently scummy and it stops there. You're bending over backwards to tell me some irrelevant method of scumhunting from you that isn't applicable here.


>Well It is assuring that he is still onto zekks even after the player change, which means there is somthing going on in that regard. I am surprised my read hasn't changed. Now if Foxtrot is his scumpartner, then that contrasting change looks the logical choice because Foxtrot's ISO would def balance this out for other players and I think Foxtrot can fend off hellfire if needed judging by her posts. I will need to do a zexion ISO later and see what that read might imply.
You're comparing my reads to my slot's earlier reads, which is NAI at best. You're forcing a connection where there isn't one.


>Now that I think about it, after you are finished laughing at the request, can you read Dawnsday too? It might help understand what your previous life was up to
I'm not going to do that. That wouldn't help you at all.


>Well why is Hika your town read? It still puts me off that hika needed vote count for reads. Hammer or no hammer, vote count should be an honest opinion. If the person needs one vote to lynch and you think that person is scum, you need to say it so that person and other can respond to it.
the hammer isn't the only aspect of the vote count relevant to reads. Sometimes a VC doesn't make sense with your reads, and a readover is necessary.

I don't understand what's so hard to get with me wanting vote counts

It's suspicious.

It's really not though

How does that even make sense as a scum motivated action

idk why I play with newbies bc you guys miss the point of playing mafia
The whole point is to AS A TEAM, come up with a lynch before deadline, otherwise we might get rekt AS A TEAM

And it's more suspicious that three people are still on my case about it

More than likely one of you have to be scum

Ace Timing wrote: 36512t

It's really not though

Ace Timing wrote: 36512t

It's really not though

Except it is. Needing a vote count before giving reads implies that the reads are based on who has votes or not. Following me so far?
That means that if someone (Hika's partner) has too many votes for her taste, she would read that person as town: if not, and the person was safe for the time being, it would be OK to read that person as scum.

Hika wrote: 2p2929

idk why I play with newbies bc you guys miss the point of playing mafia
The whole point is to AS A TEAM, come up with a lynch before deadline, otherwise we might get rekt AS A TEAM

That's exactly what we're doing, if you haven't noticed.

Hika wrote: 2p2929

And it's more suspicious that three people are still on my case about it

Just because people have their guns pointed at you doesn't mean that no one is playing as a team; three people have you under their radar, while a couple more have their eye on you. Why are you getting paranoid now that the day is almost over?

Unvote
Vote: Hika

Ace Timing wrote: 36512t

the hammer isn't the only aspect of the vote count relevant to reads. Sometimes a VC doesn't make sense with your reads, and a readover is necessary.

Hika wrote: 2p2929

I don't understand what's so hard to get with me wanting vote counts

As you are going through reading the posts, you can keep track of the vote count on your own. It's a bold action separate from much else. If you are lazy to do that much, then my understanding is that you just skimmed through posts and picked whatever best fit your needs. It would have been faster to go through the posts and do a vote count yourself than wait a few days for bboy. I went through all 18 (now 19) pages at least 6 times in the past few hours while compiling player data. It's not that hard.


I am still going through Foxtrot posts, trying to find her reads. Zex doesn't seem to have made any reads, but I am yet to go through and search for his posts specifically.

You're comparing my reads to my slot's earlier reads, which is NAI at best. You're forcing a connection where there isn't one.

Ok, fair

Ace Timing wrote: 36512t

I'm not going to do that. That wouldn't help you at all.

Any thoughts about any player help, especially if that player is self. Was worth the try anyway, didn't expect much after Foxtrot declined.

Ace Timing wrote: 36512t

With the logic of "scum won't do scummy things," your scumhunting is extremely limited. Scumhunting is a townie action, and thus it's scum's prerogative to fake doing so; fake scumhunting is inherently scummy and it stops there. You're bending over backwards to tell me some irrelevant method of scumhunting from you that isn't applicable here.

My logic isn't "scum won't do scummy things". Anything scummy is instantly on radar, and it's the easiest to pick up upon. It's townie actions which are hard to decipher because both town and scum would do it. Because those actions can be either scum or town, and I evaluate both possibilities and draw conclusions. I am yet to post a grand total analysis of all major player actions with both sides to each action, but it is in the works. Players that played with me before can vouch that I am not bullshitting about making it.

Ace Timing wrote: 36512t

>Well why is Hika your town read? It still puts me off that hika needed vote count for reads. Hammer or no hammer, vote count should be an honest opinion. If the person needs one vote to lynch and you think that person is scum, you need to say it so that person and other can respond to it.
the hammer isn't the only aspect of the vote count relevant to reads. Sometimes a VC doesn't make sense with your reads, and a readover is necessary.

Also this is missing an answer to why you think Hika is town. It just has a counter toward my argument that Hika might be scum for the weird VC request.

I'm not paranoid, I'm just trying to figure out how today is going to end with 20 hrs left

playing osu! mafia is bad because we always tend to panic our votes which is why I kept stressing the deadline so much before.

Hika wrote: 2p2929

playing osu! mafia is bad because we always tend to panic our votes which is why I kept stressing the deadline so much before.

Hika wrote: 2p2929

I'm not paranoid, I'm just trying to figure out how today is going to end with 20 hrs left

Oh it will def end with panic. Given the activity, there won't be enough time to decide on anything. At least a few Zex posts will be a miracle, I have yet to take a good look at Foxtrot, and it will be a few hours before time is up when I post my compiled analysis, giving others little time to respond.

johnmedina999 wrote: 3r3a6s

Except it is. Needing a vote count before giving reads implies that the reads are based on who has votes or not. Following me so far?
That means that if someone (Hika's partner) has too many votes for her taste, she would read that person as town: if not, and the person was safe for the time being, it would be OK to read that person as scum.

>implying that post hoc ergo propter hoc
lmao

abraker wrote: 6cx2d

My logic isn't "scum won't do scummy things". Anything scummy is instantly on radar, and it's the easiest to pick up upon. It's townie actions which are hard to decipher because both town and scum would do it. Because those actions can be either scum or town, and I evaluate both possibilities and draw conclusions. I am yet to post a grand total analysis of all major player actions with both sides to each action, but it is in the works. Players that played with me before can vouch that I am not bullshitting about making it.

I lie eagerly in wait.

abraker wrote: 6cx2d

Ace Timing wrote: 36512t

>Well why is Hika your town read? It still puts me off that hika needed vote count for reads. Hammer or no hammer, vote count should be an honest opinion. If the person needs one vote to lynch and you think that person is scum, you need to say it so that person and other can respond to it.
the hammer isn't the only aspect of the vote count relevant to reads. Sometimes a VC doesn't make sense with your reads, and a readover is necessary.

Also this is missing an answer to why you think Hika is town. It just has a counter toward my argument that Hika might be scum for the weird VC request.

I know that.

I'm waiting for the VC to give my read on Hika

same

I am slightly disappointed nobody is trying to pick apart my player ISO posts other than the players they were made for. Not even trying to understand my reasoning concerning why I think about someone. Ace even skipped my questioning of town read and proved it was on purpose. I am getting the impression you guys take town reads to player's character and draw conclusions from them without question. Lincolm is the only one that provided reasons for his reads here, and I don't see anyone trying to pick those apart. I might be hypocritical of me since I didn't either, but I am steadily working towards picking apart players' ISO. I already did Hika, rEdo, and Dawn/Ace. Next is Zex, and I'm afraid that's all I would have time for.

Any way, It pisses me off and I don't like that I doing all the effort trying to understand player actions while others are trying to connect the dots at face value. Ace's rejection to give reasoning to why he thinks Hika is town just tips that scale all too much for me. I am trying to understand and be open and all I am given is the tip of the iceberg as if that's perfectly normal.

Ace's request of VC is further proof of that and looks like a "fuck you" to me.

unvote
vote: Ace Timing


Let me just post what I have of my compilation now because it will be too late later or I might be lynched for changing my vote before I get to. I'll repost an updated version once I get around it.

wtf
you're saying dawnsday suspected zekks was a medic and thought he would doc himself?
1. doctors can't do that on this site
2. there's daychat, ergo his whole team would be on that wagon.

lol you've got me rolling on this whole thing
dont do that to someone my sides are gone
im in actual pain pls

Hika wrote: 2p2929

Just because people have their guns pointed at you doesn't mean that no one is playing as a team; three people have you under their radar, while a couple more have their eye on you. Why are you getting paranoid now that the day is almost over?

I already explained why I think your behavior is suspicious too many times and you just instantly assume I meant your VOTE. Why do your READS need the VC? It is suspicious that your reads are gonna be based on the VC because then you can easily target people who are about to get lynched off/threaten your role. And you're getting too heated up about people being weary of your actions, even though you were L-4 at the time (now L-3 I believe, and Ace voted for you with no reason but that's fine for you? Even after RSV was long over? Even though he voted for you, he seems rather eager to go out of his way to stand up with you, which makes NO SENSE.)

Yeah, votes are based on a TEAM CHOICE, whereas reads are individual analysis of other players. Now, do you see why it'd be weird to ask for VC just for reads, when they're supposed to be based on what people say during daychat? You and Ace are the most suspicious people to me right now because you both are unwilling to cooperate with rest of town.

No, I'm not gonna let go of this because your behavior is too suspicious to look over.

Unvote
vote: Hika

On john:
RE: event #1:
lol wtf? There's no AI answer to this question, and there isn't supposed to be one. There's like 20 different reasons why any person as any alignment would choose any colour. You even itted it saying "scum would give an indefinite answer, but so would town, so this is town." You can't even say someone would noob slip like that. Only time you would tell the truth as scum in that scenario would be if you legit had the IQ of a wet towel.

On zekks:
RE: event #2:
let me preface this by saying WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING FISHING FOR PRS. Beyond that, he's obviously fucking joking, and scum are equally liable to fuck around as town. This is another NAI point.

On lincolm:
??? What radioactive questioning? Are you just saying that he tried to scumhunt but acted hella scummy? How's that town?

On Zexion:
Are you just saying he wouldn't lurk as scum? I've played with scum!zex and town!zex, and they both occasionally lurk. I don't see why you're townreading this for literally no reason.

All of these have shitty base assumptions and confusing reasoning. How well did this work in your last game?

pedit: jeez you guys are actually doing it unvote: hika

The deadline will be extended by 24 hours as a result of the replacement this will be updated on the next VC

Lota of ahit happened and I was unable to post.

I'll catch up in a few hours.

@Mod: please put the deadline in the topic?

I just woke up... I need to do some shopping, then I'll check in.

First off, I would like to sincerly apologize but some real shit happened real life and I was unable to come and post something significant. I know activity is kinda low right now and I don't want to hurt this game at all.

The ammount of wallposts coming from abraker is overwhelming. But I deeply disagree with one of tha main things you're doing: looking for particular scum/town/null posts. Any good player can make sometimes go anyway, It's much better to see them as a whole rather than just classifying each one, I've seen pro scum-player making ONLY town-posts, which is suspicious by itself.

Refer to:

Ace Timing wrote: 36512t

With the logic of "scum won't do scummy things," your scumhunting is extremely limited. Scumhunting is a townie action, and thus it's scum's prerogative to fake doing so; fake scumhunting is inherently scummy and it stops there. You're bending over backwards to tell me some irrelevant method of scumhunting from you that isn't applicable here.

Also I didn't want to point out Zekks could have said that because of doctor. Yeah, another reason not to vote him.

Hika wrote: 2p2929

Thanks for letting me know your opinion on that @Zex.
I might just be very cautious about it is all. I just had an issue a few years back playing an I accidentally hammered without noticing VC. I'm just very curious when it comes to that and I can even link that game if I need to.

Is this sarcasm?

Hika wrote: 2p2929

I don't understand what's so hard to get with me wanting vote counts

It's lazy. But understandable. And it's getting a bit old.

--------------------------------------------

I'm in a bit of a hurry right now so here are my reads:

Town:

1. Ace: care-free attitude (often goes with "I have nothing to hide") and consistent posts. This mainly goes because I was already townreading dawnsday before and I'm going to keep this up atleast for D1.

Null-Town:

1. abraker: extremely analyitical posts and has put a lot of effort to come to logical conclusions. I don't agree to all his methods, but I'm inclined to believe there are town intentions coming from here.
2. Lincolm: pretty much the same as abraker, tho I'm mostly confused about his intentions. Has been defensive, but that isn't scum-aligned per-se.

Null:

1. Aomi/Zekks: I'm not voting this guy D1. Period.
2. rEdo: sure, eloquent posts and has driven the game forward. But most of the question he is making are not being followed-up by a conclusion or something. I am still waiting to see what is he going to do will all that information.
3. foxtrot: placeholder, not decided yet.

Null-Scum:

1. john: inconsistent reads and often repeats information in order to stay relevant.
2. Hika: I see a serious lack of interest here. She has held out her vote for most of the game only because of VC issues, as I said before it's okay to be afraid for a quickhammer on newbie games but you also can warn about L-1 and ask for intent for hammerings. 90% of newbie town-players are scared to mess up and be read as scum, so it's extremely unlikely to see a quickhammer that's not scum related on these games.

I'll be back before the deadline, if I only knew what time that is...

@zex, that def wasn't sarcasm

I'm not going to be talking about my intention to see VC anymore cause I've already said everything I needed to say about it/ had to say about it.

Going to drop some reads here when I see deadline come up.

Hello, getting started here. I've read the thread and so far my reads are:

Town:

Foxtrot - Constant interaction in the game and every post seems to be either scumhunting or pressing for information, her interactions with Hika give me the vibes that she's town quite heavily.
Ace Timing - His posts are very relaxed yet he's posting quite sincere townie agenda stuff. He's grilling people where they seem to make illogical conclusions (see: his reactions to abraker's imagepost)

Neut-town:

Lincolm - From what I've read this guy is trying to actively schumhunt. There're some posts of his and some lines that really baffle me and that keeps him as a null/null-town for day 1.

Neutral:

abraker - constant wall posts are nice, he's taken the liberty of going through the ISO's and pointing out where he believes things are wrong. I disagree with a lot of stuff said within them as he takes every post as an individual rather than looking at the bigger picture on display

Zexion - A lack of activity makes Zexion hard to read. What he does post though is largely town motivated so I'm tempted to move him to neut-town

John - John just posts a whole lot of nothing really. His vote on my one current scumread (Hika) however prevents me from being entirely skeptical on him. He's probably just a lost townie in my eyes.

Null-scum:

Hika - As everyone's said. Hika's posts to me seem largely iffy and I would vote except for the fact I believe Hika is L-1 currently? I'm actually torn on how I perceive the constant asks for a VC, recklessness is more townie imo and caution is more scum. I'm not saying that as a definitive but as an observation after multiple readings of mafia games/mafia theory.

I'm extremely tired so I'll respond in due time. If you have any questions or want my opinion on whatever please let me know. I'd like to try and pick up what Zekks didn't even try to.

Aomi: you're sheeping everyone else imo

can you point out my posts that you dont like that i haven't explained myself personally
i would hate to accuse you of sheeping

@Fox, HELL YEAH I'M HEATED UP BC NO ONE IS TRYING TO SEE WHAT I'M SAYING
I'm not being paranoid, I'm trying to defend myself. I see I have a lot of votes on me and I should change that?? You've literally ignored most of my posts except the one's where I'm asking for VC. I only said I needed VC for my reads ONE TIME, and that wasn't to my reads, it was to see who the hell I can pressure because it was the most accurate thing to do at the time. If that's not clear to you idk what the hell is. You're acting more scummy than the other people voting me.

Foxtrot wrote: 2l233p

(now L-3 I believe, and Ace voted for you with no reason but that's fine for you? Even after RSV was long over? Even though he voted for you, he seems rather eager to go out of his way to stand up with you, which makes NO SENSE.)

1.) I was fine with him voting me because he was a replacement that didn't even read anything when he got in the game. Did you even see what he said when he voted me lol? You play too seriously for your own good and it's not fluent in of how you're typing.
2.) Ace isn't my scum read because he can explain what I'm trying to do better than I can. I take kindly to him defending me as I can't do it myself. Scum woudn't even dare defend their partner so openly, so you're making a connection where there isn't one. If he was bothering you so much why not vote him? It would make him look more scummy than me, no?

To add to that last question, he looks like an easier target does he not? That is, if he's defending me so much.

Real quick too, bc I see everyone saying "why are you so lazy and always asking for VC"
I don't play on my laptop because I'm never home, always working, so I use my phone. I have issues typing all the time and everyone who's played with me knows that. It's just so crazy how I have to explain every single post why I cant format, do wall posts, etcetc since navigating on my phone is a hassle.

Vote: Foxtrot

doing this b4 I leave

Oh yeah, I know I'm posting a lot but I'm starting my day, grabbing food, and getting my nails done which takes a few hours.

I'm going to also add, Fox, you should honestly read over your ISO as abraker says and get back to us. You're playing badly without even realizing it. You've let up a few scumslips.

Ace Timing wrote: 36512t

I'm waiting for the VC to give my read on Hika

I refuse to believe that this was a legit reason to hold out on reads for you. I have dropped my shit after seeing this, and put out my vote, because it look as if it is meant to mock me. But going deeper, the fact you are refusing to share your read on Hika makes me suspicious of whether you are doing it so to not to talk about your scum partner or to allow the setup of an unconditional bandwagon on Hika. In either way, if you thought I would vote Hika for not understanding the why Hika's VC thing, you are wrong.

Hika's need for VC is less scummy than Ace's refusal to help explain why Hika is a townread by requesting a VC himself. Sounds like a setup for something. Also considering how Dawnsday previously decided to push for zekks lynch, there is def something up. My vote and read is justified. Dawn/Ace is scum.

Ace Timing wrote: 36512t

you're saying dawnsday suspected zekks was a medic and thought he would doc himself?
1. doctors can't do that on this site
2. there's daychat, ergo his whole team would be on that wagon.

Ace Timing wrote: 36512t

let me preface this by saying WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING FISHING FOR PRS. Beyond that, he's obviously fucking joking, and scum are equally liable to fuck around as town. This is another NAI point.

It doesn't take a genius to know what his comments might imply, especially after Hika mentioned that it could be a hint toward a PR here. Zexion itted he had the same PR as me in mind. No point in hiding it. It could have been a carefree behavior from scum, but since zekks got replaced, I doubt that care free behavior was a tactic. Using a dumb tactic on purpose and getting replaced later for inactivity sounds illogical to me. I wish I could ask zekks if he thinks doctor can vote self earlier when there was less suspicion of it being PR, but too late for that.

It's definitely bad to point out so much evidence for zekks being doctor since that would make aomi the NK candidate #1, but it best we accept the fact zekks goofed up and work from there.

Wait, may I see proof where someone said something about zekks being a doctor?
I only mentioned PR because of what Zekks said.

I didn't mention what kind of PR bc the setup is random...

I'm going to also add, Fox, you should honestly read over your ISO as abraker says and get back to us. You're playing badly without even realizing it. You've let up a few scumslips.

I read abraker's ISO and he never said I played badly. And when did I ever scumslip??

I know he didn't say that lol I'm saying that

I'll get back to you, about to go grab my foods

Hika wrote: 2p2929

idk why I play with newbies bc you guys miss the point of playing mafia
The whole point is to AS A TEAM, come up with a lynch before deadline, otherwise we might get rekt AS A TEAM

This post rubs the wrong way on multiple s:

You insult newbies whilst not really presenting anything, people are making discussions as a team to try and work out where their votes are best placed. They're split in every game ever on day 1 (Most of the time). This isn't exclusive to just Newbie games. you could argue this game is taking longer to reach a conclusion but let's not forget there's been 2 replacements thus far which obviously slows down the pace of votes.

Hika wrote: 2p2929

I don't understand what's so hard to get with me wanting vote counts

I brought it up in my previous post but I do honestly feel there is a correlation between scum and caution (obviously, wanting constant updates on VC at this point is a sign of caution), scum often feel showing caution seems so pro-town so i'm skeptical of people who constantly emphasize their caution for this reason.

this is debatable obviously and is a philosophy i can certainly see people disagreeing with in future but currently i find it to be quite a reasonable tell.


i don't see much else you haven't "explained personally" since everyone has already gone through most of your stuff.


it's easy to say i'm sheeping but i am trying to formulate my own things here, just because opinions are the same it doesn't mean they're copied/sheeped, it's just a case of people agreeing on things. also i feel having to reread the thread a lot would naturally give me opinions similar to the majority.

Hika wrote: 2p2929

I'm not being paranoid, I'm trying to defend myself. I see I have a lot of votes on me and I should change that?? You've literally ignored most of my posts except the one's where I'm asking for VC. I only said I needed VC for my reads ONE TIME, and that wasn't to my reads, it was to see who the hell I can pressure because it was the most accurate thing to do at the time. If that's not clear to you idk what the hell is. You're acting more scummy than the other people voting me.

And why the hell would you need VC to see who you can pressure? You never even said that part. And why am I acting scum when what you just said is actually pretty scummy in itself? You kind of proved mine and abraker's point now.

Hika wrote: 2p2929

My reads obviously influence town and I didn't want anyone to be like "okay so then vote abraker! *vote*" and have someone sneaky accidentally hammer. I don't think anyone is understanding this. And I dont want to be the only fucking one concerned about that but it's odd that no one else is caring about that.

And that's funny that you said that because nobody even acted that way towards abraker. Most people didn't vote him just because he offered himself for PoE, they voted him because he was acting scummy towards your reads. Also, you were obviously not the only one being concerned about that, because I also was, but I wanted to concentrate on actual scumhunting instead of abraker.

Hika wrote: 2p2929

I'm going to also add, Fox, you should honestly read over your ISO as abraker says and get back to us. You're playing badly without even realizing it. You've let up a few scumslips.

Maybe when you accuse me of scumslips, actually show me where I did? It's easy for you to say that without showing any proof. And what makes you say that I'm not realizing my mistakes? I literally did a post about that.

Hika wrote: 2p2929

I know he didn't say that lol I'm saying that

Why are you playing in a newbie game if all you're going to do is act this way towards one

I have an eight hour shift today so I'll be off for the entire day

Hika wrote: 2p2929

I'll get back to you, about to go grab my foods

Hika wrote: 2p2929

I'll get back to you, about to go grab my foods

Hika wrote: 2p2929

I'll get back to you, about to go grab my foods

Hika wrote: 2p2929

I'll get back to you, about to go grab my foods

CALM DOWN

It's not like you have to reply to me right away and I don't have to wait for you in order to write my thoughts. I have my own fucking schedule as well and I have to leave for work soon and I wanted to write some input before I leave

fucking christ

b4 I log off, Aomi, understandable why you'd vote me then thanks for explaining
I'll reply back to the first quote because I'm not insulting newbies at all. I just think you took it personal for a reason and same with Fox.

I don't think anyone knows how I actually type which is weird to me and idk why you all take it so personal.
I'm not insulting anyone and idk how Fox's last quoted post shows me playing a certain type of wa

I merely replied and said I said you were playing badly, not abraker

also I'm calm dw
I just don't want you to feel heated because that is not my intention

I just didn't think you see when I said I'll quote you when I am able to

I don't want to make anyone mad, it's never my intention, I'm just here to play the game in a timely matter

It's literally impossible for Zekks' post to be bluff or a reaction test. HE WOULD HAVE FOLLOWED IT INSTEAD OF DISSAPEARING.

Besides that kind of move is pretty hard to do for a newbie (tho he may not be it).

Zexion wrote: 11654m

It's literally impossible for Zekks' post to be bluff or a reaction test. HE WOULD HAVE FOLLOWED IT INSTEAD OF DISSAPEARING.

Besides that kind of move is pretty hard to do for a newbie (tho he may not be it).

He didn't show intention of playing however!
Don't exhaust all the options

Man if this guy just threw that and get away we may have to inagurate a black list here.

Also I'm making another post while writing this.

Hika wrote: 2p2929

I just didn't think you see when I said I'll quote you when I am able to

I did, that's on you for assuming.

Hika wrote: 2p2929

I don't think anyone knows how I actually type which is weird to me and idk why you all take it so personal.
I'm not insulting anyone and idk how Fox's last quoted post shows me playing a certain type of wa

No, I didn't say that. And that wasn't meant just for me, but for also the other time you complained about being in a newbie game.

@Mod: we really need a votecount to move some points of the game forward.

I like Hika's points on foxtrot. In fact, I was about to place foxtrot on my null-scum too. Seems to overly explain herself over and over again.

abraker wrote: 6cx2d

Hika's need for VC is less scummy than Ace's refusal to help explain why Hika is a townread by requesting a VC himself. Sounds like a setup for something. Also considering how Dawnsday previously decided to push for zekks lynch, there is def something up. My vote and read is justified. Dawn/Ace is scum.

Hold on. What makes you think Ace has a real reason for waiting for a VC or it's just something to taunt Hika's way of playing? About Dawnsday push's on Zekks, I thought someone said it was genuine due to being few minutes after that post? Now it's scum indicative? Foxtrot may as well be scum for that same last reason. Your conclusion is quite hasty.

abraker wrote: 6cx2d

It doesn't take a genius to know what his comments might imply, especially after Hika mentioned that it could be a hint toward a PR here. Zexion itted he had the same PR as me in mind. No point in hiding it. It could have been a carefree behavior from scum, but since zekks got replaced, I doubt that care free behavior was a tactic. Using a dumb tactic on purpose and getting replaced later for inactivity sounds illogical to me. I wish I could ask zekks if he thinks doctor can vote self earlier when there was less suspicion of it being PR, but too late for that.

It's definitely bad to point out so much evidence for zekks being doctor since that would make aomi the NK candidate #1, but it best we accept the fact zekks goofed up and work from there.

Hika wrote: 2p2929

Wait, may I see proof where someone said something about zekks being a doctor?
I only mentioned PR because of what Zekks said.

I didn't mention what kind of PR bc the setup is random...

There's literally no point in discussing this further. Discussing Zekks/Aomi's role will not change anything for the day 1 lynch.

How much time have we got for deciding?

No idea on that yet. BTW, I agree on not voting Aomi today however it did make me curious where this doctor claim came from

Zexion wrote: 11654m

Seems to overly explain herself over and over again.

I have nothing new to offer and I've been insanely busy lately so I can't help but do that, sorry

abraker wrote: 6cx2d

Hika's need for VC is less scummy than Ace's refusal to help explain why Hika is a townread by requesting a VC himself. Sounds like a setup for something. Also considering how Dawnsday previously decided to push for zekks lynch, there is def something up.

I'm very curious to know what you think is up.

vote: Hika

i'll post a VC in a min

I seriously hope I didn't fuck anything up I literally looked through the ISOs at least 3 times but if there's a mistake let me know

idk where you see a town foxtrot I just don't understand it

there's obvs a scum on my wagon

Ei stop please I'm still watching TI7, holifuck, it's final and I don't want miss the tournament, but I don't want missing this game. I'm pretty sure mod extend our 24 hours, that's why I'm watching it and too lazy to read right now.

@johnmedina999

Why aren't you being active in the thread?
You're pretty active elsewhere.
I think you're just trying really hard to fit in, hence why you repeat information over and over again, as Zexion mentioned.
All of your votes so far haven't been solid.
You tend to change your mind about a player after a post or two from them.
You seem to be really insecure.

damn i didnt know we were in a shrink's office

now u know

Aomi wrote: 2q6w66

@johnmedina999

Why aren't you being active in the thread?

To be perfectly honest, I have no idea what to do. This is my first game playing and my second game of experience (I've only read last game) and I'm kinda basing reads and actions from there, as well as my gut feeling. I know I'm not posting much, but I just don't know what to post.

johnmedina999 wrote: 3r3a6s

Aomi wrote: 2q6w66

@johnmedina999

Why aren't you being active in the thread?

To be perfectly honest, I have no idea what to do. This is my first game playing and my second game of experience (I've only read last game) and I'm kinda basing reads and actions from there, as well as my gut feeling. I know I'm not posting much, but I just don't know what to post.

It's fine. Don't base everything from another game though, it could very well prove to be fatal.
Post anything you feel will help town, ask questions, etc.
Just be active. No one likes a lurker.

We have around 9 hours left before the deadline btw.
Unless the extension was already counted in the countdown timer; then we have a little less than 2 hours left.
It'd be great if it's the former tbh.

Nope, add 24 hours to that

Aomi wrote: 2q6w66

@johnmedina999

Why aren't you being active in the thread?
You're pretty active elsewhere.
I think you're just trying really hard to fit in, hence why you repeat information over and over again, as Zexion mentioned.
All of your votes so far haven't been solid.
You tend to change your mind about a player after a post or two from them.
You seem to be really insecure.

imo this how I feel about fox

I'd like it if rEdo and Zexion could post more so I can stabilize my reads on them.
Zexion definitely gives me town vibes, but due to his limited availability I can't make out a solid read.
rEdo on the other hand is completely null to me, I'll wait for him to come around I guess.
@Lincolm I've read your ISO and you kept saying "then why not vote me" or something of the sort. Why is that?
You seem very confident, but then again that could just be a mask to win towncred.

Zexion wrote: 11654m

Hold on. What makes you think Ace has a real reason for waiting for a VC or it's just something to taunt Hika's way of playing? About Dawnsday push's on Zekks, I thought someone said it was genuine due to being few minutes after that post? Now it's scum indicative? Foxtrot may as well be scum for that same last reason. Your conclusion is quite hasty.

The way he did it though. He did it is a taunt and as a "no" to me in regards on why he thinks Hika is town. About the dawnsday's push on zekks, it's just my view on it. Here is the ISO that made me think that:

As it turns out, as shown later in the game, that there is something to read from zekks's weird comment. But we were still wrapping our heads about this and zekks has yet to show the his inactivity.

Dawnsday wrote: 366838

Foxtrot wrote: 2l233p

interesting that you mention a connection between Lincolm and Zekks, Dawnsday

Zekks recently wrote this

Zekks wrote: 102o9

idc, as long as I'm walking, there's no stopping for me 'w'

and I asked her to clarify on this, but she hasn't told me anything yet. I know, I might be looking too hard for clues, but that is such an odd thing to say

It is odd agreed. It's possible this is just fluff memery (however inappropriate one may deem it in a thread). I'm also quite eager to hear the reasoning for it but on the whole I don't think there's too too much that can be read into.

expected

Dawnsday wrote: 366838

Vote: Zekks

Maybe this gives you the incentive to "look things over". You're setting off my scumdar now.

I saw stuff as stupid as zekks in a previous game. I'd say anti-town, but doesn't imply scum. But you can start to see the change of mind in Dawnsday already as zekks bandwagon dies down

Dawnsday wrote: 366838

looking forward to posts from rEdo and Zexion honestly, haven't seen enough to get reads.


Also even if Zekks isn't a redname his posts don't exactly scream "pro-town" to me so I'm still entirely set on getting some info from him, obviously I'm open to let him go and follow other reads if we get any but this is defo the flavor of the day controversy for me.

Had to just drop and agree. So malleable.

Dawnsday wrote: 366838

Zekks play is anti town but I think he's just a bit clueless. I'm gonna drop it for now but if we turn up nothing I'm going to go for a policy lynch.

unvote


If zekks is a town, then we can expect zekks to be the victim at night. Depending on the PR dawnsday thinks zekks might have, and if Dawnsday is scum, it would be in his best interest to lynch zekks. However, we seem him let zekks go. Doesn't make sense if dawnsday is scum

Dawnsday wrote: 366838

I actually catch a hint of Zekks possibly being PR because of his "lynch me and mafia have a higher chance" post. It just seems that something a noob with a power role would say, could be entirely wrong but it's 100% a possibility in my mind and one that wouldn't shock me if it were to be true.

Also +1 to Foxtrot's point about John and Zexion needing to post more content. It's hard to get reads on people who don't converse

Will post later

This is a response to Lincolm saying that while we can attempt to lynch zekks, if he flips town, then that would be super bad. Yet Dawnsday still want to convince that doing that to zekks is a good consideration... right after choosing to unvote. He is still pushing to make zekks lynched and it's becomming how subtly, yet forcefully he is doing that. Given my previous comment regarding Dawnsday needing to lynch zekks instead of NK because of PR, this makes perfect sense. And he had to unvote as insurance that vote won't draw uneeded attention.

Dawnsday wrote: 366838

Lincolm wrote: 2x5543

, but I hate policy lynch also.

Why? If he's not commited to reading he's going to hurt town in the long run. It's not FUN to policy lynch rest assured I'd rather the idea was never even conceived but honestly.

I agree we shouldnt straight call it a day here and lynch but it should 100% be an option for us moving forward.

He unvoted zekks twice in a row. Didn't vote in between. Not sure if mistake or just in case to make sure people notice that he unvoted zekks. Also I did it because for reasons I explained my reasoning for it in the rEdo iso. But if dawnsday experienced a selfvote turning scum previous game, then why doesn't he just claim I am scum and vote for me then? I think my actions are just as scummy. This kinda kills the "Dawnsday as scum votes upon chance" theory. As the thinking goes, if someone appears scummy, the vote would be automatically justified for scum, but that it is not seen with Dawnsday

Dawnsday wrote: 366838

I have little to no faith in the power of PoE currently, seriously it's day 1.

Also, how and why does selfvoting exist in mafia; I seriously fail to see it's applications in any useful scenario. The last time I saw it used was BBoy last game and he did it to CLAIM he was scum.

Any other time it's used it's just straight up weird. Anyone explain it's use here? (Sorry I'm still learning mafia apparently).

unvote

removing my vote on Zekks because this is a weird gamestate

Ace Timing wrote: 36512t

abraker wrote: 6cx2d

Hika's need for VC is less scummy than Ace's refusal to help explain why Hika is a townread by requesting a VC himself. Sounds like a setup for something. Also considering how Dawnsday previously decided to push for zekks lynch, there is def something up.

I'm very curious to know what you think is up.

I mean, why would you refuse to justify a town read for someone who is likely to be lynched? You are saying town, but your refusal says you are ok with the lynch. Your unvoting Hika doesn't even make sense with your refusal to explain. Hence, it sounds like a setup for something



I pray this will be formatted correctly


.

tl;dr dawnsday push: He still insisted people to think about why zekks might be scum even though everything about it has been said. That and he had to unvote as soon as that choice started being less popular. Also the double unvote, but that might be me reading too much into it.

Okay, I have all Sunday for myself so I can do some progress again this time. I have done reread because I missed a lot of context and I totally more confused with my reads right now.

This might answer the question so I put the quote in here with my read:

abraker wrote: 6cx2d

No shit sherlock. I can see how self votes lean toward scum, but for the same reason I fail to see how the lean towards scum. I saw it as safe move because it would indeed lead toward scum and that everyone knows it's a scum move.

Anyway, abraker's self-vote is just bad and I found his reaction is highly scummy. He did that in the sake of his integrity when he under pressured. I don't know why his integrity is more important than town information. He completely ignored the reason why he is bandwagoned. For me, he looks like already plan this from start, trying to denying information for town when a lot of people are ive, and asking for other town sympathy. And there is no reason for town to self-vote except to avoid no-lynch.

Tbh, I failed to see his AtE because it looked artificial at the first time I read it. Some towns actually do this when they are pissed off or upset, but I don't know how and why unjustified 2 votes makes abraker upset. And I actually consider this as too egocentric play, like what rEdo said, but it might be coming from town. Duh to myself...

Actually, you could search by yourself the reason why self-vote is bad. This kind of knowledge is not a diversion when it is really happening in game, though. But it is your own choice if you want to read it or not.

Foxtrot wrote: 2l233p

Considering abraker is L-2 and the final day is almost over, that worries me though.

What make you think abraker can't unvote at that time?

Hika wrote: 2p2929

And it's more suspicious that three people are still on my case about it

Uh... my question is not why you need VC to vote, but why didn't you vote someone who you suspect as scum with lesser vote. But actually, everyone lack of serious vote (even myself), so I don't really know.

Anyway, for serious thing, how you asked VC many times is weird, though. I consider you might get cautious with your vote also because previous game, so it is not weird at all if I took that as a reason.

abraker wrote: 6cx2d

Event #1: If she is scum, then vote count is needed to know how to form your read to target others

I will completely disagree at this. If she is scum, don't you think she would just do her own vote count? No need to post "I need VC" in his post.

Also as I said, I don't want to discuss any PR things, except you have good reasons to persuade me why it is good for town to discuss it.

Hika wrote: 2p2929

2.) Ace isn't my scum read because he can explain what I'm trying to do better than I can. I take kindly to him defending me as I can't do it myself. Scum woudn't even dare defend their partner so openly, so you're making a connection where there isn't one. If he was bothering you so much why not vote him? It would make him look more scummy than me, no?

Not sure about this one, but JohnMedina's "wording" is somehow bad? Personally I think you can defend yourself in that case and I don't see how you and Ace is both scum. (I know it was for Foxtrot but I really want to comment on this)

Ace Timing wrote: 36512t

2. there's daychat, ergo his whole team would be on that wagon.

Eh? It is only pre-game and nightchat. Are you doing this on purpose?

Zexion wrote: 11654m

What makes you think Ace has a real reason for waiting for a VC or it's just something to taunt Hika's way of playing?

I really want to see what Ace is going to say about this.

Aomi wrote: 2q6w66

@Lincolm I've read your ISO and you kept saying "then why not vote me" or something of the sort. Why is that?
You seem very confident, but then again that could just be a mask to win towncred.

Because I know that I'm town. It is the best reaction I can get because I know my alignment. As I said, we really lack of serious votes, they only said "this guy or this guy might be scum, but I'm not sure" and not voting anyone. I have no idea, they said I might be scum that time, but not voting.

I don't know how is that very confident, though.

What do you think about people not going to vote you, at least for today?

==

Unvote
Self-vote scum with a lot of analyzed ISO wall posts doesn't suit well.

Please at least let us have 12 hours. I know that deadline is very near, but I already see the timer we at least have 24 hours before deadline. I'm so sleepy that I can't describe how agitated with this wagon, it's so fast yet so weak reasoning? Every reasoning are weak right now IMO. (And no, TI7 doesn't even finished yet when I posted this, holifuck)

ifk I think it's pretty weak reasoning too @lincolm

@abraker: what am I setting up tho

abraker wrote: 6cx2d

You are saying town, but your refusal says you are ok with the lynch.

no it fucking doesn't lol

Ace Timing wrote: 36512t

@abraker: what am I setting up tho

Didn't I already answer this? It was here. Here is the quote in case you won't find it still:

abraker wrote: 6cx2d

But going deeper, the fact you are refusing to share your read on Hika makes me suspicious of whether you are doing it so to not to talk about your scum partner or to allow the setup of an unconditional bandwagon on Hika.

Ace Timing wrote: 36512t

abraker wrote: 6cx2d

You are saying town, but your refusal says you are ok with the lynch.

no it fucking doesn't lol

You need to explain that with a little more than just "no it fucking doesn't"

abraker wrote: 6cx2d

Zexion wrote: 11654m

Hold on. What makes you think Ace has a real reason for waiting for a VC or it's just something to taunt Hika's way of playing? About Dawnsday push's on Zekks, I thought someone said it was genuine due to being few minutes after that post? Now it's scum indicative? Foxtrot may as well be scum for that same last reason. Your conclusion is quite hasty.

The way he did it though. He did it is a taunt and as a "no" to me in regards on why he thinks Hika is town. About the dawnsday's push on zekks, it's just my view on it.

About Ace: Okay, but that's just your interpretation. Maybe you're just exaggerating.
About Dawnsday: Right, if you didn't consider it a "good move" back then I have no problems with that suspicion. It's just natural to think both.

Foxtrot wrote: 2l233p

Zexion wrote: 11654m

Seems to overly explain herself over and over again.

I have nothing new to offer and I've been insanely busy lately so I can't help but do that, sorry

These kind of posts make me wonder how to reply. I understand having a busy life, but it's better just to say "prod dodge" rather than repeating stuff, trust me, it goes a long way in mafia games.

Also why people keep saying "I can't read Zexion because he posts too little". Stuff like this often happens in mafia, and we can't really let scum slip past the inactivity excuse.

Zexion wrote: 11654m

About Ace: Okay, but that's just your interpretation. Maybe you're just exaggerating.

Perhaps. It bothers me like a needle poking at skin.

Is it possible to extend deadline by 48 HRS, cuz I just realized we had two replacements and inactivity killed us

I think I'm asking for too much ¿

I have a project to do for work and it's due tomorrow so Ima be back
Things I need to do:
Reply to Aomi
Reply to Foxtrot
Type my reads in detail

Zexion wrote: 11654m

These kind of posts make me wonder how to reply. I understand having a busy life, but it's better just to say "prod dodge" rather than repeating stuff, trust me, it goes a long way in mafia games.

Thank you for the advice. This is literally my first mafia game ever so any tip is helpful for later on

Posting what happening so far.

Abraker is somehow still rubbing me wrong, but he is doing interesting analyzed ISO. Hika -> rEdo -> Ace
@abraker : What makes you decide to analyze those people, in that order?
You could ISO Foxtrot, or John, or me because early discussion involved with us.

abraker wrote: 6cx2d

This is a response to Lincolm saying that while we can attempt to lynch zekks, if he flips town, then that would be super bad. Yet Dawnsday still want to convince that doing that to zekks is a good consideration... right after choosing to unvote. He is still pushing to make zekks lynched and it's becomming how subtly, yet forcefully he is doing that. Given my previous comment regarding Dawnsday needing to lynch zekks instead of NK because of PR, this makes perfect sense. And he had to unvote as insurance that vote won't draw uneeded attention.

Related to what you said in here, Foxtrot pushed this but in blatantly manners. Here is the quote:

Foxtrot wrote: 2l233p

yeah, we do have PRs, but what makes you think Zekks is one and not just vanilla? Just chance?

I still don't get why we should back off from Zekks if he's scum, like Hika and Lincolm are suggesting. Sure, there's not enough content, but does it really matter if there's enough evidence that shows Zekks having higher chances of scum instead of town? I'd like to see more content from Zexion and John, as well

Please give your opinion regarding this
==

John is still way too ive. Basically his read is because of his paranoia or assumption that makes only sense if that guy is scum. The problem is he never pushed his assumption and back down(?) easily, but it might be because he has hard time to read people because his constant paranoia. I don't think he is scum because he engaged in voting people down first. How to wording this one? If he is "newb-scum" who have "paranoia", he wouldn't vote first. Leaning town

==
I don't know how to read Zexion. Dull Null. The only bother me is his vote hanging in Hika entire day.

==
I read Dawnsday as town, however Ace is make me unsure about this slot. Probably because his playstyle, but my gut is tinglings. I like he defends Hika, but I don't like HOW he defends Hika. I vote Hika because for the luls, probably he has connection with Hika. Why can't you just be straight up that Hika is town? It is near deadline.

This is only assumption but somehow he looks like sheeping the way of Hika's play and intentionally play ive, but I never seen he play anyway.

==
Foxtrot is town. I don't know why Hika and Ace read this slot as scum.

==
Hika is leaning town, I guess. Look, this is my bad side but I'm really weak with AtE post. He is upset with the fast wagon, well it is natural regardless alignment, but he is implying a lot that he will flipped as town. His reaction is genuine... I think.

==
Zekks is town. We got an expert in this slot replacement here. I found his case in Hika is "well, it is just your opinion". Angry people usually insult his around even though he doesn't really mean it. And holding vote sometimes just a personality tells. But it is just my opinion.

==
rEdo is still my 3rd town list. No change, still same reason like before.

@Ace Timing : Who do you want to vote right now?

I would like redo to drop in ASAP.

I voted Hika to put pressure on her but she's acting very calmly, I don't think she's scum. She was null on my last read but despite her VC scandal I would say she's leaning town. I'm not going to unvote yet, though.

Wait, Hika has been playing this game forever so she might just be a good actor, I didn't think of this.

Lincolm wrote: 2x5543

What do you think about people not going to vote you, at least for today?

I think it's sensible I won't be voted. I've only just arrived and the day is basically over, any type of discussion that props up regarding me/my role today is simply too late and wouldn't reach a conclusion in time or would be reached in a hurry leading to plenty of mistakes in reasoning from either end of the spectrum. I fully expect this psuedo vote immunity to expire tommorow but for now it just seems logical.

Zexion wrote: 11654m

Also why people keep saying "I can't read Zexion because he posts too little". Stuff like this often happens in mafia, and we can't really let scum slip past the inactivity excuse.

Hmm maybe i'm being too iffy on activity. I feel like I might just be projecting that onto you because I'm struggling to read you as anything other than a null (town). You're right, inactivity/rareposting happens often in mafia. I'll reread your ISO and see what I can determine.