Haha yeah. I've wanted to put together a "The learning process, and how it applies to learning music games like osu!mania" type document for a while actually. Making it look less intimidating is definitely something we need to keep in mind.
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[GUIDE] How to improve in osu!mania 6yb24
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At lower skill levels that sort of improvement can be pretty common. The amount of time and effort it takes to improve increases as you get better, so until you get fairly good at something, there's a good chance you might hit a point where you improve like that. Sometimes all it takes is one little thing to improve for you to go from failing something immediately to ing it.
lolpoi wrote: 18e1m
quick question
Is it normal to go from not getting 10 seconds into a song to getting a b ten minutes later?
This happened a few days ago and after i finished i was like holy cow i actually beat that map
I like to refer to such situations to a "click". It's more common in the early stages since you haven't yet explored many patterns. Although it may not seem like it, you are sometimes closer than you think to be able to read a certain pattern. It just takes that missing something, then "click" the pattern makes sense. It's not at all uncommon, I can think of a couple patterns in which I myself learned this way.
And also, sometimes songs have a high enough drain speed to make you fail with a B or even an A grade accuracy. So it's possible you were just playing a song with a high drain speed.
Either way, both are completely normal ^^
Nice post Drace.
I'd like to sum it up.
All there is to this game is attitude: if you want to be good at the game, play to get good at it. That means getting out of your comfort zone and trying new things. If you are a bad player and will just spend the whole day complaining about how everything is out of your reach, find a new hobby- even more so when there's people actually improving. If you're not, you're the only one to blame.
I'd like to sum it up.
All there is to this game is attitude: if you want to be good at the game, play to get good at it. That means getting out of your comfort zone and trying new things. If you are a bad player and will just spend the whole day complaining about how everything is out of your reach, find a new hobby- even more so when there's people actually improving. If you're not, you're the only one to blame.
Yeah, I usually call those moments "clicking" as well, actually. Haven't been able to think of a better word lol. And yeah they tend to happen more often earlier on, but they can still happen at any time.Drace wrote: 3b4w52
I like to refer to such situations to a "click". It's more common in the early stages since you haven't yet explored many patterns. Although it may not seem like it, you are sometimes closer than you think to be able to read a certain pattern. It just takes that missing something, then "click" the pattern makes sense. It's not at all uncommon, I can think of a couple patterns in which I myself learned this way.
I wouldn't quite say that's summing up what Drace posted, but it's still true. It's entirely possible to only ever play music games on a casual level, but you cant expect to get good without legitimate effort.Agka wrote: 2j3865
All there is to this game is attitude: if you want to be good at the game, play to get good at it. That means getting out of your comfort zone and trying new things. If you are a bad player and will just spend the whole day complaining about how everything is out of your reach, find a new hobby- even more so when there's people actually improving. If you're not, you're the only one to blame.
Personally, my mindset is that I want to improve, not to be highly ranked, not to get top 50 scores so people can be amazed by my "l33t skillz", but because I find that I have more fun playing harder things. The more challenging a map is, the better I feel when I finally it. Ranks are nice in that they make you feel like you're competing with other people, but as far as I'm concerned the only person I'm truly competing with is myself.
First off; thanks for the great ! It's really great 
Now I got the general tips on progression pretty much done. But if anyone thinks anything should be added, corrected or clarified; please tell me. I want this guide to be as complete and as helpful as it can possibly be. And it's not really something one can expect to accomplish on his own :p
I also got some noteworthy advances in the new pattern repository, tips directed to specific patterns classified by skill level. The beginner patterns shows what I'm aiming for in this section; a name, an example, a brief explanation, and a couple tips for players currently trying to get comfortable with that specific pattern.
But I gotta it, finding specific tips for every pattern out there on my own has proven to be quite difficult. But I think it'd be great to have such a thing completed properly. Players having trouble with something in particular will hopefully be able to find a wide range of tips from players all over! Hopefully providing a positive result. If only I had such a thing in the past xD So I'll gladly take tips or personal experiences from anyone into consideration, so don't be shy to help out ^^
Also a big thanks to the ones who've helped so far, I decided to keep track of em all so I added a little 'special thanks' box at the bottom of the first post.
Now I got the general tips on progression pretty much done. But if anyone thinks anything should be added, corrected or clarified; please tell me. I want this guide to be as complete and as helpful as it can possibly be. And it's not really something one can expect to accomplish on his own :p
I also got some noteworthy advances in the new pattern repository, tips directed to specific patterns classified by skill level. The beginner patterns shows what I'm aiming for in this section; a name, an example, a brief explanation, and a couple tips for players currently trying to get comfortable with that specific pattern.
But I gotta it, finding specific tips for every pattern out there on my own has proven to be quite difficult. But I think it'd be great to have such a thing completed properly. Players having trouble with something in particular will hopefully be able to find a wide range of tips from players all over! Hopefully providing a positive result. If only I had such a thing in the past xD So I'll gladly take tips or personal experiences from anyone into consideration, so don't be shy to help out ^^
Also a big thanks to the ones who've helped so far, I decided to keep track of em all so I added a little 'special thanks' box at the bottom of the first post.
Great guide!
I would like to also point something interesting on advanced / expert level:
Practice deep into one ability when necessary.
While there are a lot of patterns existing in osu!mania with many things to be learned, it's really hard to be a god who is good at everything. Many "ET" (Super expert players) can just play a few styles like god; when they meet styles they are not good at they would just perform like advanced players. I would list a few abilities "ET" hold to perform unbelievable scores. To be honest, each of them needs years of practicing before you get great improvement.
These ability includes:
(1) Single-key rushing
Jackhammers are hard for both beginners and experts. When jackhammers become quick enough to an insane level, it would transform into "one-second killing" period. A typical example is Identity II in O2Jam, where in a special period of song (~3 seconds) you would have to press like 20 times per second on each key to FC it. Since no one can really have such high hand speed, to miss little in order not to let the HP gauge empty becomes the playing target for these songs. If you practice a lot on this ability, you would finally get used to slow (~5 hits per second) jackhammers and are able to a few songs with long period of 20 key per second (KPS).
(2) Sightreading
SV changes are hard, extremely when they come in long period. When you face a 20~30 second of x0.3 SV, it's really hard to catch up the note because of too high density on the board. Try to play a random song with mania speed 1, and you would face the challenge.
If you practice a lot on the ability, finally you would find it easy to read any map, especially on these parts that are full of notes. As a side effect, you would have slightly better judgment. (Some O2Jam ET told me to practice super low speed; They told be you would raise your judgment level quickly but I finally give up on that crazy practice
)
(3) Multi-key rushing
Unlike single key burst, double or triple streams may last for minutes or just the whole song (mostly in BMS songs where they don't use LNs). To have a stable output when smashing your keyboard for minutes, having each note accurately hit and no note wrongly pressed is a really tough task; This need high level of endurance. If you practice a lot on the ability, you would be able to play, you would not only these maps which is full of heavily placed notes, finally you would be able to FC them. (It is really hard for players not having a mistake each 100~200 notes)
(4) Accuracy
Since MAX need really strict timing, getting a song perfect is really hard. when you see your SS score only 990k and are overtaken by 991k S score, won't you be sad? It's a good target to get 999k on each song despite of its difficulty, but is it possible...? (999k is nearly 98% EX Score comparing to LR2, where a lot of ETs have proved difficulties on this task and some of them finally made it on nearly every song.) If you practice a lot on the ability, finally you would found your S overtaken others' SS
(5) Long notes (LN)
Many people love immerse LNs; many people hate it, but the fact is many ET are able to play immerse maps that is already insane difficulty on their un-immerse version. To practice in this style means you would enter a fresh new world, when you find nearly every experience on former play unusable. For many players the typical scene is after years of practice, when they meet the easiest immerse LN maps which un-immerse version is just beginner level they would easily fail. If you can struggle on this and practice a lot on this ability, you would find anything LN easy. Not only on immerse maps, you would found you having no difficulties playing maps with LNs combining with other hard patterns. (Actually immerse LNs are initially designed as a finger practice to normal "hard LN maps".)
As seen in my experience, any one of above abilites needs years of practice to conquer, which make it really hard to get everything good. It's wise to mainly practice one or two abilities when not giving up other abilities, but keep in mind that you would struggle to make progress on this level. Don't worry, any one of these abilities would grant you an honor place on the ranking
I would like to also point something interesting on advanced / expert level:
Practice deep into one ability when necessary.
While there are a lot of patterns existing in osu!mania with many things to be learned, it's really hard to be a god who is good at everything. Many "ET" (Super expert players) can just play a few styles like god; when they meet styles they are not good at they would just perform like advanced players. I would list a few abilities "ET" hold to perform unbelievable scores. To be honest, each of them needs years of practicing before you get great improvement.
These ability includes:
(1) Single-key rushing
Jackhammers are hard for both beginners and experts. When jackhammers become quick enough to an insane level, it would transform into "one-second killing" period. A typical example is Identity II in O2Jam, where in a special period of song (~3 seconds) you would have to press like 20 times per second on each key to FC it. Since no one can really have such high hand speed, to miss little in order not to let the HP gauge empty becomes the playing target for these songs. If you practice a lot on this ability, you would finally get used to slow (~5 hits per second) jackhammers and are able to a few songs with long period of 20 key per second (KPS).
(2) Sightreading
SV changes are hard, extremely when they come in long period. When you face a 20~30 second of x0.3 SV, it's really hard to catch up the note because of too high density on the board. Try to play a random song with mania speed 1, and you would face the challenge.
If you practice a lot on the ability, finally you would find it easy to read any map, especially on these parts that are full of notes. As a side effect, you would have slightly better judgment. (Some O2Jam ET told me to practice super low speed; They told be you would raise your judgment level quickly but I finally give up on that crazy practice
)(3) Multi-key rushing
Unlike single key burst, double or triple streams may last for minutes or just the whole song (mostly in BMS songs where they don't use LNs). To have a stable output when smashing your keyboard for minutes, having each note accurately hit and no note wrongly pressed is a really tough task; This need high level of endurance. If you practice a lot on the ability, you would be able to play, you would not only these maps which is full of heavily placed notes, finally you would be able to FC them. (It is really hard for players not having a mistake each 100~200 notes)
(4) Accuracy
Since MAX need really strict timing, getting a song perfect is really hard. when you see your SS score only 990k and are overtaken by 991k S score, won't you be sad? It's a good target to get 999k on each song despite of its difficulty, but is it possible...? (999k is nearly 98% EX Score comparing to LR2, where a lot of ETs have proved difficulties on this task and some of them finally made it on nearly every song.) If you practice a lot on the ability, finally you would found your S overtaken others' SS
(5) Long notes (LN)
Many people love immerse LNs; many people hate it, but the fact is many ET are able to play immerse maps that is already insane difficulty on their un-immerse version. To practice in this style means you would enter a fresh new world, when you find nearly every experience on former play unusable. For many players the typical scene is after years of practice, when they meet the easiest immerse LN maps which un-immerse version is just beginner level they would easily fail. If you can struggle on this and practice a lot on this ability, you would find anything LN easy. Not only on immerse maps, you would found you having no difficulties playing maps with LNs combining with other hard patterns. (Actually immerse LNs are initially designed as a finger practice to normal "hard LN maps".)
As seen in my experience, any one of above abilites needs years of practice to conquer, which make it really hard to get everything good. It's wise to mainly practice one or two abilities when not giving up other abilities, but keep in mind that you would struggle to make progress on this level. Don't worry, any one of these abilities would grant you an honor place on the ranking
As a complete beginner, there's one thing this guide didn't explain to me - what key bindings to use, what styles are there (symmetrical/ltr) and what's their advantages. I picked sdf space jkl because that's what most people seem to be using. Also, the link to Entozer's map list should be a little bigger, I didn't notice that when reading the first time x_x
Besides that it's nice Great job, thank you
Besides that it's nice
Great job, thank you
Can I humbly ask why people keep asking what key bindings to use?Tear wrote: 14g6j
As a complete beginner, there's one thing this guide didn't explain to me - what key bindings to use, what styles are there (symmetrical/ltr) and what's their advantages. I picked sdf space jkl because that's what most people seem to be using. Also, the link to Entozer's map list should be a little bigger, I didn't notice that when reading the first time x_x
Besides that it's nice
SDF[Space]JKL is the default keybindings. I personally use WER[Space]IOP because I have rather big hands SDF[Space]JKL feels too "clustered" for me. As for the keybinding style, just use the symmetrical one if you're a total beginner in the mania mode. What I can say about keybindings is it all depends on your preference, how you feel, etc... You have to make sure you play with the most comfortable settings when playing, and not using other people's settings just because you think they are better than you so their settings are better. Some people even play with some super weird keybindings like ZSXDCF and it - somehow - works for them.Tear wrote: 14g6j
As a complete beginner, there's one thing this guide didn't explain to me - what key bindings to use, what styles are there (symmetrical/ltr) and what's their advantages. I picked sdf space jkl because that's what most people seem to be using. Also, the link to Entozer's map list should be a little bigger, I didn't notice that when reading the first time x_x
Besides that it's nice
Try to find your own settings. It's also the same with skins : make your own choice.
Beware, when switching key setups, it will take time to get used to a new one. You can't spend an hour (or 4) one day and expect to know whether or not it works for you. You need to play until you feel like you've fully adjusted to the new key setting, and see if it seems to be helping you improve, or not.
Generally though, in 7k there are a few standard settings people use. "SDF JKL", "ASD KL:", "WER UIO", "QWE IOP". I have seen some people use setups like "SEF JIL" an such as well, but they are less common.
There really isn't an inherent "advantage" to any sort of key binding. It really depends on whether or not that binding works for you.
And yes, the link to Entozer's list could be bigger.
Generally though, in 7k there are a few standard settings people use. "SDF JKL", "ASD KL:", "WER UIO", "QWE IOP". I have seen some people use setups like "SEF JIL" an such as well, but they are less common.
There really isn't an inherent "advantage" to any sort of key binding. It really depends on whether or not that binding works for you.
And yes, the link to Entozer's list could be bigger.
[- 6D -]
Great guide! Really interesting stuff.
For me I train with HardRock, Hidden and Random Mods
HardRock - Trains your accuracy like crazy!!
Hidden - This estimation somehow allows you to feel the music more than from sightreading normally
Random - Prevents memorization of patterns! With this, you can play your favourite beatmaps over and over again! (The Notes randomize each time you restart)
After training with these 3 mods and going back to playing with no mods, everything will become way easier
Do experiment with new key configs if you are still new, I once tried (Lshift Z X 0 4 5 6 (numbers on numpad)), feels like playing a guitar lol
For me I train with HardRock, Hidden and Random Mods
HardRock - Trains your accuracy like crazy!!
Hidden - This estimation somehow allows you to feel the music more than from sightreading normally
Random - Prevents memorization of patterns! With this, you can play your favourite beatmaps over and over again! (The Notes randomize each time you restart)
After training with these 3 mods and going back to playing with no mods, everything will become way easier
Do experiment with new key configs if you are still new, I once tried (Lshift Z X 0 4 5 6 (numbers on numpad)), feels like playing a guitar lol
Truly interesting, and there I was wondering how could people read those BMS maps not too long ago...Drace wrote: 3b4w52
Thanks again on the positive ! I finally added the reading section I've been working on for a while, feel free to comment~
Being an advanced-beginner, (only clearing up to level 30 o2jam songs) I don't know how I should proceed to train myself on one reading technique or the other. I feel like I just play the patterns coming at me without giving a real sense to them (well, the only maps I could somehow feel and make sense out of the patterns are GravitoN HD and Freedom Dive 7K MX, but there aren't really enough hard patterns to make use of these techniques).
Good job !
I'm sorry, but this is what I think of when you say ET! What does it actually stand for!?
Also, I'm not so sure it takes years of practice to play long note maps. I played o2mania intensely for 4 months and I was able to clear the lvl40 song [SHD] Out of control, which is pure inverse LN. It's probably one of the easiest LN maps though. I did practice on it a lot as well, and this was one of the only songs above level 30 that I was able to clear. But I've seen youtube videos of players clearing lv80 long note maps who 'claim' to have less than one year of experience.
And oh my, I don't even understand how this is possible. I can't even remotely read it.
ET stands for the exact same thing it stood for in that movie; Extraterrestrial, so so damn good they aren't human anymore. It's actually a very common term thrown around daily in all similar games ;o
The times are guidelines based on casual play, an hour or two a day and not really every day. It's how most players play and in turn would be true for most players. I thought about changing them to gameplay time instead but I just haven't gotten to doing so yet. Also keep in mind that "clearing" isn't a basis to say you can "do them". If it took an intense 4 months to clear 1 map with repeated practice; it will take that much if not longer to S any similar patterns on the first try. Which is what I personally consider being able to do a pattern.
The times are guidelines based on casual play, an hour or two a day and not really every day. It's how most players play and in turn would be true for most players. I thought about changing them to gameplay time instead but I just haven't gotten to doing so yet. Also keep in mind that "clearing" isn't a basis to say you can "do them". If it took an intense 4 months to clear 1 map with repeated practice; it will take that much if not longer to S any similar patterns on the first try. Which is what I personally consider being able to do a pattern.
Can anyone give me some advice in working on accuracy?
I have now reached the point where I can get a high A or low S on a map that I feel 100% comfortable playing.
With that I mean: not a single hesitation in the patterns to execute, 0 misses, etc. Basically where the only mistakes I make are little timing mistakes (200 and very rarely 100's).
Say, if I wanted to get 99%+ accuracy on these maps, would I have to practice slow boring maps all the time?
Would accuracy also automatically come if I play maps that are a little more challenging (where I get low-high A's), so I can also add some pattern and chord practice in my plays?
Basically, I want to get good accuracy but I don't want to play boring maps all the time, is that possible?
I have now reached the point where I can get a high A or low S on a map that I feel 100% comfortable playing.
With that I mean: not a single hesitation in the patterns to execute, 0 misses, etc. Basically where the only mistakes I make are little timing mistakes (200 and very rarely 100's).
Say, if I wanted to get 99%+ accuracy on these maps, would I have to practice slow boring maps all the time?
Would accuracy also automatically come if I play maps that are a little more challenging (where I get low-high A's), so I can also add some pattern and chord practice in my plays?
Basically, I want to get good accuracy but I don't want to play boring maps all the time, is that possible?
Why would I play what I usually play (which is stuff I get highB-lowA on) with HR if I can't even get 95%+ WITHOUT HR...
I mean I can play the hardest standard maps (that I own -> freedom dive) or o2jam level songs up to lvl 20-25 with highB-lowA.
But the maps I can S are < insane standard maps or < lvl10 o2jam level songs that are terribly boring to play...
I mean I can play the hardest standard maps (that I own -> freedom dive) or o2jam level songs up to lvl 20-25 with highB-lowA.
But the maps I can S are < insane standard maps or < lvl10 o2jam level songs that are terribly boring to play...
You just got to feel the beat, and the accuracy will come naturally.Xcrypt wrote: 5f4c5r
Why would I play what I usually play (which is stuff I get highB-lowA on) with HR if I can't even get 95%+ WITHOUT HR...
I mean I can play the hardest standard maps (that I own -> freedom dive) or o2jam level songs up to lvl 20-25 with highB-lowA.
But the maps I can S are < insane standard maps or < lvl10 o2jam level songs that are terribly boring to play...
Xcrypt, practising on harder stuff helps you improve faster. Don't feel like you need to be able to S/A/B everything. Everyone needs to top thinking in of the rank you got, or the score. The important things are: If you want to improve, play stuff that is "too hard" for you; and focus on personal improvement, not trying to read some arbitrary rank/score. I don't care how well I've done on something, I always want to get a better score. There's no "I gotta keep trying till I get XYZ" so I play maps I find fun without stressing myself over my scores.
Problem is, when I get < 85% accuracy, which would be true for level 25+ songs, I feel like I can't handle the patterns properly. My wrists/fingers start hurting a lot (especially because I play 4hours a day on avg, in periods). Also, those songs feel more like a typing exercise than a rhythm experience. I don't want to get back into my old habits and mess up my wrists again. I like to play in the sweet spot of 85-95%, which feels like the patterns are challenging enough to keep me entertained. I just hope I won't mess up my accuracy like that, because I suppose most of you guys play around 92-99%
To be honest full combo'ing a song with such a low accuracy is pretty unheard of. I find getting 98%+ is much easier than getting full combo. I would first make sure your setup is working optimally. Try different frame limiters (I play on unlimited always) and try adjusting your global offset. Try reloading the skin, there's this bug that messes everything up relating to spectating.
But if everything IS working fine, you just need to adjust to this game's timing. And playing with HR does help with accuracy since most of those 200s and 100s will be ed as misses, and most those 300s will become 200s. More penalty on bad timings will improve your accuracy faster than with minimal penalty.
But if everything IS working fine, you just need to adjust to this game's timing. And playing with HR does help with accuracy since most of those 200s and 100s will be ed as misses, and most those 300s will become 200s. More penalty on bad timings will improve your accuracy faster than with minimal penalty.
Actually, it seems like there are mainly 2 'groups' of people when it comes to accuracy vs combo length. Some people seem to be naturally able to get long combos, while others seem to be better at getting high accuracy.Drace wrote: 3b4w52
To be honest full combo'ing a song with such a low accuracy is pretty unheard of. I find getting 98%+ is much easier than getting full combo. I would first make sure your setup is working optimally. Try different frame limiters (I play on unlimited always) and try adjusting your global offset. Try reloading the skin, there's this bug that messes everything up relating to spectating.
But if everything IS working fine, you just need to adjust to this game's timing. And playing with HR does help with accuracy since most of those 200s and 100s will be ed as misses, and most those 300s will become 200s. More penalty on bad timings will improve your accuracy faster than with minimal penalty.
Personally I consider myself in the accuracy group, but only because I'm quite awful at keeping a combo going (since I'm not particularly good with accuracy either).
I don't "play around" any particular accuracy percentage. The harder a song is, predictably, the lower my score. I personally find that the difference between a score in the 85-93% (roughly) range and something that would be in the 95%+ range for me is actually pretty large. In of what I play, I have scores ranging from 98% to 60% depending on how hard something is. I found that ignoring the "comfort zone" has been one of the biggest factors in improving.Xcrypt wrote: 5f4c5r
Problem is, when I get < 85% accuracy, which would be true for level 25+ songs, I feel like I can't handle the patterns properly. My wrists/fingers start hurting a lot (especially because I play 4hours a day on avg, in periods). Also, those songs feel more like a typing exercise than a rhythm experience. I don't want to get back into my old habits and mess up my wrists again. I like to play in the sweet spot of 85-95%, which feels like the patterns are challenging enough to keep me entertained. I just hope I won't mess up my accuracy like that, because I suppose most of you guys play around 92-99%
Here's my motto: If a song feels "too hard", it's just hard enough. If a song feels "just right" it's too easy.
If you spend time practising on stuff out of your comfort zone, it will "push" your comfort zone higher. Once you get to say around level 25+ songs, you've encountered and learned to play basically every 'building block' pattern there is. Most of the harder patterns are made up of combining these 'building blocks' together in different ways. Even shield streams can be seen as combining certain basic patterns (since shield streams are usually stairs you could consider them a set of simple stairs layered with an LN stair immediately after).
I found I used to have a lot of trouble reading and playing 3+ note chords when they came in groups. My fingers just didn't seem to be able to move the right way. Then I started playing doorknob and davteezy's BMS conversions, and because BMSs have far more complex chords than o2jam charts, the practice soon (a month or 2) led to an improvement in overall finger independence, so not only did I improve at reading and playing complex chords, but I also improved at playing LNs and patterns with 1 or 2 LNs and note streams.
Keep in mind, it takes time to see the effects of practice. You can't just spend play something a few times and say "there I went and practised what I'm bad at". The more time you spend practising on stuff you have difficulty on, the less time it will take to see effects. I honestly feel that most stuff in your "comfort zone" have minimal practice effects beyond keeping you from starting to lose your skill from lack of practice.
Find out WHY your accuracy is low, and then you can figure out how to improve it best. Turn on the Hit Error timing thing and check what your timing looks like. If you always seem to be early/late, change the global offset and find out what the best global offset should be.
@Bobbias.
I agree playing stuff out of your comfort zone makes you better faster. I never said I played inside comfort zone though. I called it the sweet spot, but it IS out of my comort zone. I get a decent amount of misses going and a good amount of bad/good.
But when you're talking about going so far out of your comfort zone (60-75% acc), then you are also training. You might just improve faster too!
The problem is: your body and brain adapts to what you train them to do. So if you train at 60-75%, even though you might improve faster, you will also have gotten better at making mistakes, since those will also be in muscle memory. But the worst thing for me personally is that playing songs that are THAT far out of your comfort zone will put a lot of stress on your hands.
(Btw, I think it's okay to play 60-75% sometimes, I just don't think its fine to play them all day as training, which is what my old training looked like)
Oh and yeah BMS conversions are awesome, but I can only play lv00-01 yet =(
@Entozer
I play with floating wrists (like piano players) mostly. There are some times I will rest my wrist on my desk, but I try to play floating mostly. You could read my other thread on RSI I made some days ago if you want to know more.
I agree playing stuff out of your comfort zone makes you better faster. I never said I played inside comfort zone though. I called it the sweet spot, but it IS out of my comort zone. I get a decent amount of misses going and a good amount of bad/good.
But when you're talking about going so far out of your comfort zone (60-75% acc), then you are also training. You might just improve faster too!
The problem is: your body and brain adapts to what you train them to do. So if you train at 60-75%, even though you might improve faster, you will also have gotten better at making mistakes, since those will also be in muscle memory. But the worst thing for me personally is that playing songs that are THAT far out of your comfort zone will put a lot of stress on your hands.
(Btw, I think it's okay to play 60-75% sometimes, I just don't think its fine to play them all day as training, which is what my old training looked like)
Oh and yeah BMS conversions are awesome, but I can only play lv00-01 yet =(
@Entozer
I play with floating wrists (like piano players) mostly. There are some times I will rest my wrist on my desk, but I try to play floating mostly. You could read my other thread on RSI I made some days ago if you want to know more.
It all comes down to 's preference. I know I feel better when resting my wrists on my desk and play decently this way, but I can tell that having your wrists in the air gives better "freedom" - I don't know how to describe this - and allow your fingers to move somewhat faster. That's how I feel it. But many people still play with their wrists resting on a and pull off some crazy plays.
It's mainly because floating wrists is the proper position to do typing (ergonomics), will put much less punishment on your wrists. For some people it also gives a slight increase in speed, and I find it easier to switch between finger/wrist/arm tapping modes when playing with floating wrists.
Resting wrist on your desk on the other hand, might give you more stability. But I think stability can be trained in floating position too, and resting your hand on desk is really bad for hand health. But I guess some people can get away with it.
Resting wrist on your desk on the other hand, might give you more stability. But I think stability can be trained in floating position too, and resting your hand on desk is really bad for hand health. But I guess some people can get away with it.
Sorry for the very late reply. I don't check the forums daily.Xcrypt wrote: 5f4c5r
@Entozer
I play with floating wrists (like piano players) mostly. There are some times I will rest my wrist on my desk, but I try to play floating mostly. You could read my other thread on RSI I made some days ago if you want to know more.
Hmm, I've seen a lot of players who also plays with their wrists floating but they never experienced their hand hurting a lot after some hours. As for me, I play with my hand resting on the table (but for typing, I don't rest my hands on the table. I just feels weird to type that way). The only time I experienced my hand hurting a lot (and I mean a lot) would be when I'm hitting the keys too hard and moving my hands too fast.
Maybe you are hitting the keys too hard? The only thing you should be feeling after a long hour of mania-ing should be tiredness. If your hands are hurting, you're probably playing songs that are a bit too hard for you (not that it's bad, but too much is never good). Try to play songs that you are comfortable with. For new patterns, I know that sometimes you unconsciously hit the keys hard to get a feel on it but too much is not good.
Anyway, disregard everything I've said if my assumptions are wrong.
Now that I'm playing a bit more frequently, my hands just stay in whatever position is comfortable. For >200 BPM songs on standard, I sometimes push my thumb on the desk to sort of stay closer to the keyboard while streaming. Mania I often pull the keyboard closer to the edge of the desk and rest my forearms on the edge (with floating wrists). But, I don't have a proper technique for either.
I've never had any pain issues, save for my fingers aching after I've played with them freezing up (which only happens very occasionally).
I've never had any pain issues, save for my fingers aching after I've played with them freezing up (which only happens very occasionally).
It takes around 1 or 2 weeks to begin to get used to it and start to play seriously. In the meanwhile, play whatever you like (even autoconverts, in which case you'll need to turn the 7K mod on). Try to get the notes right, without bothering too much about accuracy. What you want at first is to be able to the songs, and when you do so, it means that you're more and more getting used to the keys.
Mania is very hard at all stage of the game, so even though this is just the beginning and you find it a bit hard, don't give up. Practice is key.
Mania is very hard at all stage of the game, so even though this is just the beginning and you find it a bit hard, don't give up. Practice is key.
You could, but whether you go that route, or simply practice on other songs until to you improve enough to be able to do those, will yield the same end result. Though I would personally suggest the latter since I believe you'll improve faster, and in more fields, when working with a larger variety of patterns and maps rather than focusing on a couple patterns featured in a couple songs.
If you keep playing songs that level for practice, slightly bellow to master the basics and slightly above to expose yourself to harder stuff, there's no doubt you'll acquire the skills you need to do the patterns you're having trouble with in time. Just keep at it ^^
If you keep playing songs that level for practice, slightly bellow to master the basics and slightly above to expose yourself to harder stuff, there's no doubt you'll acquire the skills you need to do the patterns you're having trouble with in time. Just keep at it ^^
I personally think playing the specific patterns you're having trouble with can do wonders.
But I also agree with Drace, it is important that you play entire songs with a large variety because you need to be exposed to different things and variations and combinations thereof. And it is a lot more fun.
Practicing one specific pattern you're having trouble with, can really help you get better at that pattern a lot faster in my experience. But just be sure that you play more songs than you practice specific patterns because mania is still a rhythm game after all.
Also this 'lvl' is just something mappers use to indicate how difficult they think their chart is. There are different standards though, but most will use the o2jam lvl standards (1-50, there are also levels beyond that but they are usually a bit on a weird scale imo. A lvl50 song can be just as hard as a lvl90 etc)
But I also agree with Drace, it is important that you play entire songs with a large variety because you need to be exposed to different things and variations and combinations thereof. And it is a lot more fun.
Practicing one specific pattern you're having trouble with, can really help you get better at that pattern a lot faster in my experience. But just be sure that you play more songs than you practice specific patterns because mania is still a rhythm game after all.
Also this 'lvl' is just something mappers use to indicate how difficult they think their chart is. There are different standards though, but most will use the o2jam lvl standards (1-50, there are also levels beyond that but they are usually a bit on a weird scale imo. A lvl50 song can be just as hard as a lvl90 etc)
well to me, it seems like theres a huge jump in difficulty for me with a diff that is very straightforward and then a difficulty that is completely unbeatable to me. I can usually get As on level 15ish maps but when I go up to level 20ish I fail almost all the time (unless I resort to button mash orz)
Hm it's not really something easy to explain since it's not something people actually stop to think about. When you walk you don't think about every single muscle you move in your body let alone think about whether you're ing or expanding them. But understanding this could help in figuring out where you could cut off movements to be more efficient in your actions. It's pretty much the same thing here/
When you're reading horizontally, it's reading everything in sequential steps. "" This, then this, then this, then that"". You don't take the time to break up everything in individual patterns and instead read the whole thing as a whole.
Vertical reading you kind of look ahead and try to make sense of the different patterns coming at you, then playing the multiple patterns you've identified simultaneously as they reach the judgment line. Instead of the "" This, then this, then this, then that"" mindset of horizontal reading, it's more of a "" This and this and that, then, this and that and this"". Or, ""These 3 patterns, then, these 3 patterns".
When you're reading horizontally, it's reading everything in sequential steps. "" This, then this, then this, then that"". You don't take the time to break up everything in individual patterns and instead read the whole thing as a whole.
Vertical reading you kind of look ahead and try to make sense of the different patterns coming at you, then playing the multiple patterns you've identified simultaneously as they reach the judgment line. Instead of the "" This, then this, then this, then that"" mindset of horizontal reading, it's more of a "" This and this and that, then, this and that and this"". Or, ""These 3 patterns, then, these 3 patterns".
I guess I'm in reality doing vertical reading then. But when I come to the point at which I can't devide them notes into patterns I just kinda' lose control and start spamming all over the place, lol. At least until I get to a part which I once again can read like that.Drace wrote: 3b4w52
Hm it's not really something easy to explain since it's not something people actually stop to think about. When you walk you don't think about every single muscle you move in your body let alone think about whether you're ing or expanding them. But understanding this could help in figuring out where you could cut off movements to be more efficient in your actions. It's pretty much the same thing here/
When you're reading horizontally, it's reading everything in sequential steps. "" This, then this, then this, then that"". You don't take the time to break up everything in individual patterns and instead read the whole thing as a whole.
Vertical reading you kind of look ahead and try to make sense of the different patterns coming at you, then playing the multiple patterns you've identified simultaneously as they reach the judgment line. Instead of the "" This, then this, then this, then that"" mindset of horizontal reading, it's more of a "" This and this and that, then, this and that and this"". Or, ""These 3 patterns, then, these 3 patterns".
Drace what you're describing there as "vertical reading" is basically how your brain's pattern matching works. You build up a collection of small patterns that your brain recognizes on instinct, and then you break more complicated patterns into collections of smaller ones, usually in multiple levels. Its also a way to do "clustering", as it's sometimes called.
Clustering is a memory technique. It's often mentioned that your brain can only 7 things at once, but everyone knows you can easily recall things like 10 digit phone numbers (or however many digits they are where everyone lives) even if they're longer than 7. How do you do it? You break it into sections. Here in Canada, a typical phone number might be something like (684) 721-8632. Your brain would break it into 3 sections: 684, 721, and 8632. Each of those is less than 7 digits each, and there are less than 7 of those clumps there. when you have a whole bunch of notes on screen, this has to get a bit more complicated, but the theory is the same.
You break large patterns into smaller ones, and those smaller ones into even smaller ones over and over. This is all totally subconscious, but as far as we know this is basically how your brain actually processes things.
I think the reason people tend to read "horizontally" is because when you have so many things to try to pay attention to at once, you try to decide how to use your attention, and I think most people try to consciously read each "horizontal pattern" (all the notes that happen at the same time) and try to ignore the other notes around it.
The way I read is that as notes through the area I concentrate on, I build a mental picture of the entire pattern and identify all the "sub-patterns" while the notes are moving fro the area I focus on towards the judgement bar. By building a mental image I can identify the patterns, compare them with the music and use that to predict the patterns. It's a bit hard to describe exactly.
Clustering is a memory technique. It's often mentioned that your brain can only 7 things at once, but everyone knows you can easily recall things like 10 digit phone numbers (or however many digits they are where everyone lives) even if they're longer than 7. How do you do it? You break it into sections. Here in Canada, a typical phone number might be something like (684) 721-8632. Your brain would break it into 3 sections: 684, 721, and 8632. Each of those is less than 7 digits each, and there are less than 7 of those clumps there. when you have a whole bunch of notes on screen, this has to get a bit more complicated, but the theory is the same.
You break large patterns into smaller ones, and those smaller ones into even smaller ones over and over. This is all totally subconscious, but as far as we know this is basically how your brain actually processes things.
I think the reason people tend to read "horizontally" is because when you have so many things to try to pay attention to at once, you try to decide how to use your attention, and I think most people try to consciously read each "horizontal pattern" (all the notes that happen at the same time) and try to ignore the other notes around it.
The way I read is that as notes through the area I concentrate on, I build a mental picture of the entire pattern and identify all the "sub-patterns" while the notes are moving fro the area I focus on towards the judgement bar. By building a mental image I can identify the patterns, compare them with the music and use that to predict the patterns. It's a bit hard to describe exactly.
You're still clustering in horizontal reading, it's just sequential instead of simultaneous.
Take a sequence of stairs that go throughout a long section with chords here and there. Reading it vertically you will read/analyze and play the whole stair while simultaneously doing the chords as they come down. Reading it horizontally however you won't analyze the stairs any further than the change in pattern (the chord). The outcome will be the following for each readings;
Vertical => [(Stair) and (chord then chord then chord)]
Horizontal => [ stair then chord then stair then chord then stair then chord ] (Though stairs will most likely be partial or broken at this point)
Both readings utilizes patterns players have learned throughout their playing, but the way they go about analyzing and playing them are fundamentally different. A recent example I've stumbled upon recently was how stepmania colourizes their notes based on beat instead of lane. Like 1/1 notes will be one colour, 1/2 another, 1/4 another, 1/3 another etc etc. This really enforces horizontal reading due to how the notes are.
Take a sequence of stairs that go throughout a long section with chords here and there. Reading it vertically you will read/analyze and play the whole stair while simultaneously doing the chords as they come down. Reading it horizontally however you won't analyze the stairs any further than the change in pattern (the chord). The outcome will be the following for each readings;
Vertical => [(Stair) and (chord then chord then chord)]
Horizontal => [ stair then chord then stair then chord then stair then chord ] (Though stairs will most likely be partial or broken at this point)
Both readings utilizes patterns players have learned throughout their playing, but the way they go about analyzing and playing them are fundamentally different. A recent example I've stumbled upon recently was how stepmania colourizes their notes based on beat instead of lane. Like 1/1 notes will be one colour, 1/2 another, 1/4 another, 1/3 another etc etc. This really enforces horizontal reading due to how the notes are.
Clustering isn't really necessary in horizontal reading, at least for 7k and lower (although you're right, it likely happens for everyone except complete novices).
I would call how I read a combination of horizontal and vertical reading. As the line of notes es by, I read it horizontally, and as my mental image of the pattern builds, I can begin predicting and seeing the vertical patterns, so I see both horizontal and vertical representations of the patterns simultaneously. Well, except on stuff like REALLY dense BMSs where I can't identify the patterns in any term aside from as a series of chords, or a series of chords with bursts mixed into them.
And while stepmania encourages horizontal reading, I could still do vertical reading there (not that there's much need for it in 4k). I used the note coloring as a timing cue, and I always saw it as a separate "layer of information" on top of the column/location/music.
I would call how I read a combination of horizontal and vertical reading. As the line of notes es by, I read it horizontally, and as my mental image of the pattern builds, I can begin predicting and seeing the vertical patterns, so I see both horizontal and vertical representations of the patterns simultaneously. Well, except on stuff like REALLY dense BMSs where I can't identify the patterns in any term aside from as a series of chords, or a series of chords with bursts mixed into them.
And while stepmania encourages horizontal reading, I could still do vertical reading there (not that there's much need for it in 4k). I used the note coloring as a timing cue, and I always saw it as a separate "layer of information" on top of the column/location/music.
I know that feeling lol. I always run songs the best the first time I play them as well. It's like I start fearing some parts of the song the next time like "oh right this was that hard part".Xcrypt wrote: 5f4c5r
Even a 1% score improvement on a song I tried hard on feels so rewarding nowadays, haha.
When I keep playing a map I can barely combo, I eventually start making the very same mistakes in the same places.. It's like my mind has been polluted with muscle memory and I can't actually read the map anymore .-. Even if I get more skilled, I can't improve at maps I . And since mania has very little maps, I'm pretty much stuck unless I stop playing for a few weeks... I'm not good enough for BMS converts and almost all o2jam converts are low quality or mistimed.
And before anyone suggests it, I dislike random mod because it ruins patterns :/ There's very little chance for patterns i'm bad at to appear.
And before anyone suggests it, I dislike random mod because it ruins patterns :/ There's very little chance for patterns i'm bad at to appear.
What's with all the o2j hate... I it, some of them are mistimed, but in my experience that doesn't occur too often. What I dislike though is there are a lot of ghost notes, and the song difficulity is often not very well distributed across the map. Still, there are tons of good o2j charts aswell. I like BMS as much as the other guy but I think some o2j charts can be more intriguing since they usually have a larger variety of patterns.Tear wrote: 14g6j
I'm not good enough for BMS converts and almost all o2jam converts are low quality or mistimed.
I like O2Jam maps because they're completely different from Mania maps, but I also dislike some for the same reason.
I use Random occasionally, mainly on osu!standard auto-converts. Strangely, I can do better on 'streams' (quick single notes?) when they aren't stairs. As in, go and try Almagest with Random on. I did rather a lot better on timing.
I use Random occasionally, mainly on osu!standard auto-converts. Strangely, I can do better on 'streams' (quick single notes?) when they aren't stairs. As in, go and try Almagest with Random on. I did rather a lot better on timing.
Same for me. I tend to time my hits better when the streams are random, but this also heavily depends on BPM. On a medium or low BPM song I know I prefer playing random streams than stairs, whereas on gigh BPM songs I prefer playing stairs rather than random streams.The Muffin Man wrote: 5x2e33
I like O2Jam maps because they're completely different from Mania maps, but I also dislike some for the same reason.
I use Random occasionally, mainly on osu!standard auto-converts. Strangely, I can do better on 'streams' (quick single notes?) when they aren't stairs. As in, go and try Almagest with Random on. I did rather a lot better on timing.
Yeah, the way o2jam's song format works, there's no way to properly use inherited sections. You'd have to figure out how to tell the difference between a speed change that's for effect, and one that's a legitimate speed change in the song. I'm not sure why the lines would be hiding the notes though, I actually prefer the use of uninherited sections because osu tells you the BPM range, most common BPM, and you get visual cues based on measure lines when you play the song, so you always know there are speed changes, and can read them easier when playing (assuming the measure lines don't cover your notes).
Glad you're enjoying GJ's maps. Rubythespamer/Apenix, yumel the lightbringer and FF Ken Yu all have some maps at lower levels as well (and are all pretty good quality), though I think they all have fewer low level difficulties then GJ has. Kuliner also has good low level diffs (on the ones I have ed, his easy diffs range from level 5 to level 13, and normals 15 to 24)
Glad you're enjoying GJ's maps. Rubythespamer/Apenix, yumel the lightbringer and FF Ken Yu all have some maps at lower levels as well (and are all pretty good quality), though I think they all have fewer low level difficulties then GJ has. Kuliner also has good low level diffs (on the ones I have ed, his easy diffs range from level 5 to level 13, and normals 15 to 24)
It's hard to play like that x_x And in motion there's several copies of each line because I can't afford a 180Hz screen
And I'm not *that* bad, I play level 20-25 now
And I'm not *that* bad, I play level 20-25 now
For the names "Runningman" and "Trilling Stairs", why not use the names "Trees" or "Ladders"
I picked up both when I used to play Guitar Hero more often than not.
A ladder is exactly what the trilling stairs is portrayed as, and can work both ascending and descending.
A tree is typically a three note stair (I.E. 1 2 3 2 1 2 3 2 1), but I feel like either that name would fit better than running man.
Anyways, great guide. I read this at school when I had free time and I now know what I should work on exactly.
I picked up both when I used to play Guitar Hero more often than not.
A ladder is exactly what the trilling stairs is portrayed as, and can work both ascending and descending.
A tree is typically a three note stair (I.E. 1 2 3 2 1 2 3 2 1), but I feel like either that name would fit better than running man.
Anyways, great guide. I read this at school when I had free time and I now know what I should work on exactly.
always play in 7K. then the lower keys will come at you naturally.
I've been an o2jam player for a while, and stopped for about a year or two. despite never playing 4K 5K 6K, I can "read" them just fine.
My problem is there's little available ranked maps meant for Mania. and they're not physically as tiring as its STD counterpart. I've lost some chunks of skills due to this.
I've been an o2jam player for a while, and stopped for about a year or two. despite never playing 4K 5K 6K, I can "read" them just fine.
My problem is there's little available ranked maps meant for Mania. and they're not physically as tiring as its STD counterpart. I've lost some chunks of skills due to this.
I've been playing rhythm games for like... since I'm... 12? 11? I'm almost 20 now. Left O2jam after starting for almost a year, and then somewhere at 16 I think I started playing BMIIDX (Actually LR2 but just the same thing). In Double Mode. On a keyboard. Gosh it was hard. I never knew it could actually be done. Nowadays I play both games, more inclined on BMIIDX since it just feels like a more challenging game (16keys ftw).
Thing is that I constantly felt as if I'm reaching my own skill cap, and there's not much room for improvement, months of playing, maybe almost a year, and I'm still at the same place as before, I improve in only some songs, but there are just some patterns that won't cut it for me. It could possibly come from me not having an expanded list of songs that I was able to play with LR2 because there's not much songs for that game anymore. I haven't even seen anyone who would play it like I do since I first started. But then who knows, I just started out playing osu! again because of the mania mode, see how it works when I try out all the cool stuff. P*light is awesome btw.
Now I have to say that your body condition actually plays a huge role in performance, well at least for me. There are some times that I just felt like my fingers aren't going as I wanted them to, but then there are some times, where everything.... just goes so smoothly. I could play a lot of songs and pull off strings of melodies I never knew I could. My laptop does lag out a few times making me break combos, but that doesn't happen so often, I just wait it out and retry so it's kind of fine.
What's jackhammering anyway? Edit: Ah just read the Advanced section, I see. I'm probably around the Novice -> Advanced borderline. I thought you meant something as hammering your feet down according to the rhythm and play along. I do it a lot when I like the song, and a few times I'd stop playing just because my feet was so tired.
Thing is that I constantly felt as if I'm reaching my own skill cap, and there's not much room for improvement, months of playing, maybe almost a year, and I'm still at the same place as before, I improve in only some songs, but there are just some patterns that won't cut it for me. It could possibly come from me not having an expanded list of songs that I was able to play with LR2 because there's not much songs for that game anymore. I haven't even seen anyone who would play it like I do since I first started. But then who knows, I just started out playing osu! again because of the mania mode, see how it works when I try out all the cool stuff. P*light is awesome btw.
Now I have to say that your body condition actually plays a huge role in performance, well at least for me. There are some times that I just felt like my fingers aren't going as I wanted them to, but then there are some times, where everything.... just goes so smoothly. I could play a lot of songs and pull off strings of melodies I never knew I could. My laptop does lag out a few times making me break combos, but that doesn't happen so often, I just wait it out and retry so it's kind of fine.
What's jackhammering anyway? Edit: Ah just read the Advanced section, I see. I'm probably around the Novice -> Advanced borderline. I thought you meant something as hammering your feet down according to the rhythm and play along. I do it a lot when I like the song, and a few times I'd stop playing just because my feet was so tired.
It's pretty common to hit these so called "skill walls". To me and many others improvements in the upper levels has been done in small bursts. Feels like you're capped out for a couple months then bam, magical day where you beat everything. Constant improvement for a couple days until you hit your next wall, rinse and repeat.
Personally, I don't like "sticking around" in areas I don't see much improvement. Like if there's a handful of songs I can't beat my top anymore on, time for new songs. If I can't clear anything harder than I already have, I'll go back to easier stuff and aim for full combos. When I can't full combo anything harder than I already have, I move on to the mid-range, trying to ace songs I have Bs on, trying to S songs I have A on. When I hit a wall in bms, I move on to LNs. I bounce around my whole "skill spectrum" and usually when I get back to where I started, there's enough improvement in me to push a little further.
An other good thing to have is motivation, simply saying you want to be better at times isn't enough to push yourself to sur your own abilities. I've seen people improve much faster when they set "achievable" goals one after the other; "Alright this week I'll S this bad boy...!!". Or two people of the same level range acting like rivals can really fuel up greatly fastened improvement.
All in all, just keep a positive attitude and play for fun. The wall you're facing is bound to crumble eventually!
Personally, I don't like "sticking around" in areas I don't see much improvement. Like if there's a handful of songs I can't beat my top anymore on, time for new songs. If I can't clear anything harder than I already have, I'll go back to easier stuff and aim for full combos. When I can't full combo anything harder than I already have, I move on to the mid-range, trying to ace songs I have Bs on, trying to S songs I have A on. When I hit a wall in bms, I move on to LNs. I bounce around my whole "skill spectrum" and usually when I get back to where I started, there's enough improvement in me to push a little further.
An other good thing to have is motivation, simply saying you want to be better at times isn't enough to push yourself to sur your own abilities. I've seen people improve much faster when they set "achievable" goals one after the other; "Alright this week I'll S this bad boy...!!". Or two people of the same level range acting like rivals can really fuel up greatly fastened improvement.
All in all, just keep a positive attitude and play for fun. The wall you're facing is bound to crumble eventually!
Entozer wrote: 486d5j
TRUST. BELIEVE. SUCCEEDED
Umm I have a question
Why can I only get 300 on the short notes, but not on the long notes?
I can almost never get 300 on them, usually 100 or 200, or worst, 50
Short notes:
Long notes:
I think I pressed the keys at the right time for the long one, but it turned out I didn't. I don't know when to press
Why can I only get 300 on the short notes, but not on the long notes?
I can almost never get 300 on them, usually 100 or 200, or worst, 50
Short notes:
Long notes:
I think I pressed the keys at the right time for the long one, but it turned out I didn't. I don't know when to press