palion wrote: 6gq4k

eldnl wrote: 663i2l

Ask to the comunity (people who know him) if they are really nice guys and deserve a second chance. But for totally shameless guys must be a permanent BAN.

too subjective

I can't see the problem with that.

eldnl wrote: 663i2l

palion wrote: 6gq4k

too subjective

I can't see the problem with that.

"Hey, this friend of mine can prove I didn't really cheat!

Yes! I know him in real life, he's no cheater! His skill is amazing!

Oh okay, just because he said so

*hacks again*

Didn't you tell me he wasn't a cheater?

He told me to say that to you, I'm sorry peppy ;~;"

peppy can't make decisions based on testimonies like that, I say. In the case he is/was a cool guy to have around (imagine a BAT was banned for cheating), the permaban should still apply; the punishment shouldn't get softer for anyone in particular.

eldnl wrote: 663i2l

palion wrote: 6gq4k

too subjective

I can't see the problem with that.

Two things

1) Friends will generally their friends. They could be a huge cheater, and they'll know it, but they'll go "omg he was nice" just to get their buddy back
2) This make bans follow the Lunah/Mara/Gladi/Whoever Else clause, which means "Hey, I can do anything that I want to, because I'm popular and my fanbase will give the site hell if I'm banned"

Pretty much, cheaters should be banned. Maybe not perma-banned, but at least banned for a long period of time. None of this "oh people won't shut up about him so let's not ban him." crap. That's what pisses me off every time someone popular gets banned here. They do some stupid crap and everybody sees them as a god because they were so popular, even if an unpopular person did the exact same thing. There's so much damned leniency that it just makes the entire mod team lose its authority.

I don't generally criticize people this forwardly, maybe it's because I'm in the worst of moods today, but gaah, seriously, if you really feel the need to cheat after making yourself an established member of the community, then there's consequences. Nixon didn't get his ass popular'd into office after Watergate and stuff. Nobody went "Oh, he's a nice guy, he's done so much for the country! Let's give him a second chance!"

For every action, there's a consequence. I've been banned from so many places, and I know that if I'm doing stupid stuff, then I'll get a punishment. Hell, within the year, I'll probably get banned from here. But I won't be pissed about it, as long as I know why I was banned, because I'll know that I'm just getting the consequence that comes with doing a misdemeanor. I don't have the popular crap behind me, because most of the people in power pretty much hate me and aren't afraid to it it, so maybe I'm "biased" in a sense. But I was great friends with a lot of people who got banned. I wasn't mad, or angered, because I knew that, I apologize for the cliche, if you can't pay the time, then don't do the crime.

I didn't even read what the thread was about, so I may look completely stupid right now.

So yeah, although I'm not like "PERMA-BAN ALL THE ", because I know that people do turn around, and people sometimes make misguided mistakes, there should still be some sort of punishment that is more then just a few days, especially for popular people that get banned. If you're going to ban them for a year, then they should be banned for a year. I've had year-long bans before, and you know what I did? I took it like a man. I ed some other places and waited until my ban was over, then improved myself to not be such a dumbass next time.

.-.

Shut up you are an idiot you should be banned ok? :S :S XD XD

eldnl wrote: 663i2l

Ask to the comunity (people who know him) if they are really nice guys and deserve a second chance. But for totally shameless guys must be a permanent BAN.

"Really nice guys" don't cheat.

And usually anyone who cheats is already aware of the consequences, but just want to risk in hopes of not getting caught (or asking for second chance if they are eventually found out).

That said, I don't particularly care what happens to their s, as long as their hacked plays/scores are removed from the scoreboard and they don't cheat again. But a permaban sounds better.

i'd say the 3rd option. the risk of banning doesn't seem to be stopping the numbers. neither does giving second chances. the 3rd seems ok though since it lets them play, but removes the need to cheat in the first place

HD+FL on taiko with a dual screen makes me weep so much... Yet it's not cheating, I'd rather we fix this thing as well D:
2nd chance or permaban ftw

Score reset, disable submission, but leave access is the only logical and viable option to compensate for the sheer lack of effect any IP ban as they are useless for ISPs that don't give out static IP addresses or people by them with a proxy.

Second chance could technically come after a grace period of n time as an added bonus to those who have decided to be both beneficial to the community (in the form of modding maps or just generally good forum behaviour) and come to with their length of time being forbidden from score submissions which means they have learnt from their previous mistake.

If they do it again there is no more chances and their is permanently blacklisted from another opportunity to become a regular again.


^ This helps to cover quite a few areas in this option. ^

To me, being beneficial to the community doesn't make any difference if they are doing harm secretly. Instant negation of any positive in my eyes.

.

Disable submission surely, and it'll send a message to any other potential cheaters in the community.

peppy wrote: 6w4l42

To me, being beneficial to the community doesn't make any difference if they are doing harm secretly. Instant negation of any positive in my eyes.

ontopic: I think the only option is to permanently ban the player. The other two options seem almost rewarding, especially considering
those players who'd like a score reset in order to improve statistics.

Most people have a dynamic ip on multiple 255.255.0.0 range (65535*X ips), so it's useless to ban by IPs.
People with static IPs can get a new one by changing their router mac and forcing the dh server of their isp of giving them a new one.
Banning MAC? byed in 2s. Banning some sort of hardware GUID? byed in 2s.

There is no by-proof way to ban and if someone is smart enough to cheat on osu i think he's smart enough to by a ban.

3rd option is the best choice.

Soly wrote: 4i1u2f

peppy wrote: 6w4l42

To me, being beneficial to the community doesn't make any difference if they are doing harm secretly. Instant negation of any positive in my eyes.

Exactly, it's like your wife cheating on you.

then you lock her up in the basement and never let her see another man.

The problem is that you can kick out the wife, but she always comes back, and always looks different, and you have to accept her back.

Unless you lock her up.

kriers wrote: 615o5i

considering those players who'd like a score reset in order to improve statistics.

But they cheat. Their statistics are already enhanced.

Sinistro wrote: 3z5e6z

kriers wrote: 615o5i

considering those players who'd like a score reset in order to improve statistics.

But they cheat. Their statistics are already enhanced.

I think he's saying they don't cheat but want their stats reset from their bad play style so then they cheat to get that goal accomplished indirectly.

I still don't get it, since the poll option pairs score reset with disabling score submission.

Voted for option 1, but after reading the thread, more inclined to option 3.

Second chances should not have been given in the first place. Some may complain that people who cheated before a certain date got a second chance compared to those who will not if this gets implemented; unlucky them.

Looking at osu! currently, there seems to be no way of blocking multis completely. No point in banning ip/MAC address/etc. A person who is intent on cheating is going to find new ways to cheat no matter what; good luck to the s on dealing with those.

As for why my opinion went from option 1 to option 3, the thread persuaded me that playing for score is only a part of osu!. If a previous cheater decides that what's done is done and decides to lead a new career, then fine. His score submission privileges won't return, but at least he can map/participate in community projects/chat/do whatever else that might please him. Let him use his old instead of creating a new one. Like I said above, those intent on cheating will carry on by any means anyway, so s are going to have to pay attention for those willing to regain their score submission privileges by creating new s, even if not necessarily for cheating. Cheaters do need to be punished after all, and that is in the form of score reset/prevention of submitting new scores.

That was not what I mean but who cares xD

i choose permanent ban

Practically KRZY said everything i was thinking on the post 3 above this one, i would like to see permanent ban really working fine with no exeptions but since it does not, third one is the most viable one.

Probably they have god like hands to manage a perpect score using all hard mods in an insane song.. So they always say they don't cheat.. XD

*I voted for 'reset scores, etc.'... It should be 'reset anything including the er's tag'...

i vote for permaban
Game is for fun, not to show off that "i'm good at this or that"
it would be better with effort, but cheating is just-- NO.

I know the cheating is unacceptable but I still believe permabans are slightly harsh. After all, the results of cheating can be negated and scores can be reset.

I vote permaban, there is no reason why you should cheat.

As for IP banning, not entirely sure how effective this might be. I mean I can get a different IP just by resetting my modem. MAC address banning however is a bit more effective, but I have no idea the lengths needed to do this

cheating in osu! (or any other games) is like cheating in class :p

Papi Bear ROCKS wrote: 1u6h3q

cheating in osu! (or any other games) is like cheating in class :p

god I did that all the time...

I voted permaban, because well, every other game out there, cheating is a permanent ban so, why the hell would we be more lenient than that.

Sakura Hana wrote: 6eqm

I voted permaban, because well, every other game out there, cheating is a permanent ban so, why the hell would we be more lenient than that.

Well that is true...

BeatofIke wrote: 3q196d

Sakura Hana wrote: 6eqm

I voted permaban, because well, every other game out there, cheating is a permanent ban so, why the hell would we be more lenient than that.

Well that is true...

It isn't, I've played other games that the bans are like 1 month, 2 month 6 month or something like that depending on the cheat xD

peppy wrote: 6w4l42

Winshley wrote: 5616h

(I'm also hoping that peppy can find a way to detect Flashlight cheatings. Perhaps with some unique algorithms applied to the Flashlight mod)

navy0333 wrote: 1p1th

i think osu! should have a antihacking system...... like other online games.....

It does. The fact you don't know it's there means it's doing a good job; it should not interfere with normal s at all.

Yeah because sending a list of open processes and window names is a anti cheat lol. But to be real the worst thing you gonna get on this game is more than likely the flash light issue. Its not popular enough for someone to even bother messing with.

SilentKiller wrote: 4h6o3r

Yeah because sending a list of open processes and window names is a anti cheat lol. But to be real the worst thing you gonna get on this game is more than likely the flash light issue. Its not popular enough for someone to even bother messing with.

osu probably md5s dlls for a hashcheck (based off seeing osu!.cfg)

anyway, I think permanent ban is ineffective against cheaters because they can easily re- and provokes cheaters to hack more; the 3rd option is probably the best option here

palion wrote: 6gq4k

SilentKiller wrote: 4h6o3r

Yeah because sending a list of open processes and window names is a anti cheat lol. But to be real the worst thing you gonna get on this game is more than likely the flash light issue. Its not popular enough for someone to even bother messing with.

osu probably md5s dlls for a hashcheck (based off seeing osu!.cfg)

anyway, I think permanent ban is ineffective against cheaters because they can easily re- and provokes cheaters to hack more; the 3rd option is probably the best option here

I laughed so hard at this....

eldnl wrote: 663i2l

It isn't, I've played other games that the bans are like 1 month, 2 month 6 month or something like that depending on the cheat xD

Ah i see. Nvm then.

Cheaters should be Banned Forever.

icwudt Jaay

SilentKiller wrote: 4h6o3r

Yeah because sending a list of open processes and window names is a anti cheat lol. But to be real the worst thing you gonna get on this game is more than likely the flash light issue. Its not popular enough for someone to even bother messing with.

Fact: ing otherwise private info (such as process lists and window/application data like osu! does without any end consent is very much illegal, here in the UK at least.

Ijah wrote: 1tv3g

SilentKiller wrote: 4h6o3r

Yeah because sending a list of open processes and window names is a anti cheat lol. But to be real the worst thing you gonna get on this game is more than likely the flash light issue. Its not popular enough for someone to even bother messing with.

Fact: ing otherwise private info (such as process lists and window/application data like osu! does without any end consent is very much illegal, here in the UK at least.

if you know it, and yet u still play, it means u are consenting.

Ijah wrote: 1tv3g

SilentKiller wrote: 4h6o3r

Yeah because sending a list of open processes and window names is a anti cheat lol. But to be real the worst thing you gonna get on this game is more than likely the flash light issue. Its not popular enough for someone to even bother messing with.

Fact: ing otherwise private info (such as process lists and window/application data like osu! does without any end consent is very much illegal, here in the UK at least.

Its not public info. I`ve posted it before in the forums and it was removed very swiftly I might add. I dont see why there was such an issue with it if the information was being used correctly.

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Doesnt even state the use of data being transmitted. TOS should be updated to accommodate.

that's surprisingly astute from you, SilentKiller.

pretty much every program with any tangible from of "hack detection" will at the very least, check what processes are running on your machine to a list of "suspicious" ones determined by the distributors of the software. this is not new, and such information is probably never even seen by human eyes to begin with.

the process data should at least be encrypted somewhat =\

YodaSnipe wrote: 1q18f

icwudt Jaay

312 votes

CHEATERS SHOULD BE BANNED!!!by that..it really shows as an example for those people who really doing it!!!
they should be contented..IMPROVEMENT is the best way!

Permahammer, most definitely. If someone cheats, what's to say they won't cheat again? It's like a leopard on a vinyl recorder.

Except without the leopard.

Or the vinyl recorder.

*ahem*

Ijah wrote: 1tv3g

SilentKiller wrote: 4h6o3r

Yeah because sending a list of open processes and window names is a anti cheat lol. But to be real the worst thing you gonna get on this game is more than likely the flash light issue. Its not popular enough for someone to even bother messing with.

Fact: ing otherwise private info (such as process lists and window/application data like osu! does without any end consent is very much illegal, here in the UK at least.

well how botu friendok impersonating my doing my from halo398 into halo 398 eh?

I think cheaters should be nailed to the cross.

The main problem with leaving cheaters around, as seen in another game I play, is that they spread their cheats with their friends once they get caught. It's best to permaban.

Not like the war can be won against multi's tho, but atleast their friends list will be inaccessible.

And they're lazy to make multi's just to spread a cheat, which is why they cheat in the first place.
For example once they get their scores reset, they just float around doing stuff and even cheating like before if they know they're given a second chance by the 'system' of 'not-banning.' They talk to people, and before long, this guy is offering 'you' cheats.

It's happened to me in 2 other games already where I had considerable skill, cheaters got caught, and they were my friends, but they stuck around and soon offered me the cheats. Naturally due to my personality of striving to improve my coordination skills, I refused.

Pandemoniusz wrote: 2t1v1b

I think cheaters should be nailed to the cross.

isnt that a bit offensive to other religions?

Pandemoniusz wrote: 2t1v1b

I think cheaters should be nailed to the swastika.

Why can't people just play FAIRLY?!

what is a cheater?, I say because I dont wanna accidentally do something that I regret later. XD

Rock Forever wrote: 725d4w

what is a cheater?, I say because I dont wanna accidentally do something that I regret later. XD

You'll probably be safe from being considered a cheater or anything of the like then.

However, cheating and the like usually comes from using an external program to give an unfair advantage to the player and/or editing data files on osu!. If one change the way the program behaves that only they will unfairly benefit, then that's cheating.

EDIT: Also, take a good read of this.

Heyyaa ~

Me and CaCtus112 were thinking of an own let's call it Anti-Cheating/Hacking-Team in/at osu! just like the Beatmapping community got BAT and MAT, the like gaming/rank community should have an Anti Cheat Team, maybe o:

Still, it would be hard to ban all the Hackers and Multi-s out there, but having an own team of people who search for those hackers/cheaters, reporting them and finally ban them, would possibly make the whole cheating-situation a bit better. Maybe x:

I dun know if that is a good idea or not ..

I think BAT's already have the permission to ban people, or am I wrong?
If I'm wrong I you idea, although peppy and other staff will say "just report their scores and we'll do it"..

Hawkii wrote: 1g1429

Still, it would be hard to ban all the Hackers and Multi-s out there

They are not so many cheaters out. If it's clearly to see that they cheat, they get banned as soon as possible.
If there's no obviously evidence to see, it will be harder to give a reason to ban, yes.
But seriously, every 40.000th player cheats. So a Team isn't neccessary since the Mods here can ban/reset scores.

Nice to heard.

LOL cheating on osu!

I think a second chance would be fine, well it's not like there not just going to make a new on a new ip.

I hope that peppy can fix the program code so that the cheaters can't exploit.
peppy がんばって!

As someone who's never been banned I have no clue to what extent a banned is denied access to the game, but I really wouldn't bother with second chances on the cheating thing. The third option (Ban them from score submissions forever, but leave access to games, forums etc open) is what I think is fair.

You can also have BanchoBot warn players about their cheatery status whenever they to a multiplayer game. It'll trail them forever, kinda like a criminal record, heh heh.

First offenders should just have their score wiped.
Third offenders need to have cheater labeled clearly on their profile page, from then on they are free to cheat for all they care. And make sure when they participate in multiplayer games, their rank is counted separately.

loldcraft wrote: x3s21

Third offenders need to have cheater labeled clearly on their profile page, from then on they are free to cheat for all they care.

Sounds interesting. They can be labeled the same way as banned s before, who had a sign under their picture saying that they're banned.
EDIT: whoops, I'll check timestamps next time.

Permanent ban

How to deal with cheaters? Lure them to the gates of hell.

Score reset, 2 week ban from score submission, but keep access to their s. If they continue after the 2 week ban, just permaban them.

why are you ressurecting this dino-topic?

[Luanny] wrote: 1a3g5e

why are you ressurecting this dino-topic?

Because i'm bored.

[Luanny] wrote: 1a3g5e

why are you ressurecting this dino-topic?

Epic Words xD

I HATE cheaters…
Some cheaters are using hack program or cheat engine, I hope Peppy will fix it cause too many bugs… so far, peppy will do this.

Kunieda wrote: 4z4q18

I HATE cheaters…
Some cheaters are using hack program or cheat engine, I hope Peppy will fix it cause too many bugs… so far, peppy will do this.

wut

This is the dumbest vote I've ever seen, you just gave three options to vote for the same result.

Permanent ban = disable , good luck stopping them from making a new one
Second chance = makes no difference to the first option, except that it's easier for you to track the new
Score reset, disable submission, but leave access = only reason to hack is to get scores, take that away and they'll make a new .

BRBP wrote: 3c2e1e

This is the dumbest vote I've ever seen, you just gave three options to vote for the same result.

Permanent ban = disable , good luck stopping them from making a new one
Second chance = makes no difference to the first option, except that it's easier for you to track the new
Score reset, disable submission, but leave access = only reason to hack is to get scores, take that away and they'll make a new .

Then you actually don't have to care, right?

Stefan wrote: 5nd6l

BRBP wrote: 3c2e1e

This is the dumbest vote I've ever seen, you just gave three options to vote for the same result.

Permanent ban = disable , good luck stopping them from making a new one
Second chance = makes no difference to the first option, except that it's easier for you to track the new
Score reset, disable submission, but leave access = only reason to hack is to get scores, take that away and they'll make a new .

Then you actually don't have to care, right?

Right, any other questions?

nope.

BRBP wrote: 3c2e1e

blahblah only reason to hack is to get scores, take that away and they'll make a new .

Not always true, I knew one hacker who coded a bot himself just for the sake of coding and perfectioning. He didn't care about ranks but ofcourse got some top ranks while testing and got banned in the end.

Tshemmp wrote: 8453e

BRBP wrote: 3c2e1e

blahblah only reason to hack is to get scores, take that away and they'll make a new .

Not always true, I knew one hacker who coded a bot himself just for the sake of coding and perfectioning. He didn't care about ranks but ofcourse got some top ranks while testing and got banned in the end.

Cool story, but why didn't he test it offline if ranks don't matter? And what did he do to continue making that perfect bot of his after he got banned? Care to guess?

You should also learn the difference between hacking and using a bot.

Aaahhh, I didn't really want to start an argument about this. :/ Well.

BRBP wrote: 3c2e1e

Cool story, but why didn't he test it offline if ranks don't matter? Why should he go offline for testing? "To not get banned?" Yeah, he didn't care about that either. And what did he do to continue making that perfect bot of his after he got banned? Care to guess? Well, he finished his perfect bot. So he was done with his "project", nothing to do there anymore.

You should also learn the difference between hacking and using a bot. Yeah, that was my fault, I didn't read carefully. You are right when you say hacks are only to get scores.

Let them cheat it's ok.

and be a low profile pro without rank...

Wishy wrote: 414n35

Let them cheat it's ok.

I disagree, it will just encourage more people to do it to the point where most people don't play legit. think of a ripple effect happening in the community

Cheaters should be hung drawn and quartered.

[Luanny] wrote: 1a3g5e

why are you ressurecting this dino-topic?

Punch them in the face! Just kidding

How about banning them for like 1 year and give their back?

Hanyuu wrote: l713n

Option 3:
Also all of their forum posts, their complete profile and all of the cheaters beatmaps are deleted. They should also be marked in both the online list in game and their profile as a cheater so everyone will see it, and it should be so noticeable that you can not miss it. Also they should be silenced forever in any chat room and private messages. That is a very good punishment for cheaters, just let them be online and enjoy their shamefull existance and let them at least play without taking part in the community ever again in any way. This should also be applied for any other they had before they got banned and also every new one they will create. And they should never again be able to post on the forums! Or make a subforum where only cheaters are allowed to post and let them cry with each other for the rest of their life

Hm... This is most likely God (or Karma or something else) works on real life. Thieves are an example of shame and permanent misery (while they don't repent and leave their crime life behind, becoming honest and nice...)

I choose the #3 option, adding the described 'hell' as mentionated above.

EDIT: Hanyuu, really you're part of the Higurashi freakin' collab

It's possible to cheat in osu? wth how? Do people use like bots or something?

I think so...

[Luanny] wrote: 1a3g5e

why are you ressurecting this dino-topic?

Can someone lock it please? <_<

inb4 Andrea

No need to lock this kind of topic, where the community says their opinion about how to deal with something.

Suggestions are always welcomed, anytime.

Confirmed 100% true.

Is Satan.

[Luanny] wrote: 1a3g5e

why are you ressurecting this dino-topic?

lol
discussions like this = lock

I'm sure someone said this maybe but, if it's a 1st time offense, then wipe all their stats and start from the beginning and maybe put like [C] on their profile to indicate they cheated. Kinda like a Scarlet Letter kind of deal or a Wall of Shame page.
If they're stupid enough to cheat again, just ban them for good.

I'm in favor for a reasonable punishment for the first offense but I think repeat offenders should get the most harshest type of punishment possible (score wipe, no access to , IP blocked, etc)

Outsanity wrote: 1y4q27

I'm sure someone said this maybe but, if it's a 1st time offense, then wipe all their stats and start from the beginning and maybe put like [C] on their profile to indicate they cheated. Kinda like a Scarlet Letter kind of deal or a Wall of Shame page.
If they're stupid enough to cheat again, just ban them for good.

I'd totally exploit this to get all of my bad scores wiped.

lol i didnt know that there are cheaters xD on to the topic hmmp FIRST OFFENSE maybe just reset they're status put them back in lvl 0 then erase all of they're records but put them in the last last rankingscore just like erasing they're existence has just been deleted it should work no harm or others just plain punishment and maybe on the SECOND OFFENSE they cant access they're for about let's say about a 5'month punishment or so so then the THIRD OFFENSE maybe we can put there the perma ban punishment or so called the punishment over 9000! then is should do the work .. LETS MAKE OSU RUN CLEAN!

hillaryzx wrote: 6f6c41

Permanent ban should be enough for real cheaters....

yeah its true

BlackAgumon wrote: 2p2337

hillaryzx wrote: 6f6c41

Permanent ban should be enough for real cheaters....

yeah its true

even if this thread is too old, i second that

This thread is old and I'm bumping to make a recommendation:
Why not just make it difficult for the cheater to notice whether they've been banned or not instead of informing them?

Make their scores still visible to them on the rankings, but only to them.
Make their chat invisible to everyone.. so if they try to say "LOL I HAX", they'd find themselves being ignored.

People either cheat because they want to make a scene (the obvious ones that take rank 1 on difficult maps) or because they're useless at osu and need cheats to help them.
My above proposed solution would make their efforts wasted because the attention they seek would not be granted.

Or how about.. cause them to get random misses every now and then.. that'd be frustrating because they would be baffled wondering why their cheats are broken.

It's the cheaters that are cheating just for attention that will be happy to just find methods to by whatever ban (ip//hardware etc) and make a new and continue cheating.. so it's best to make it difficult for them to determine whether they're banned or not rather than practically informing them "You're banned, so now you can go make a new to continue your fun."

Only issue with this is with people who get banned accidentally for whatever reason (assuming that ever actually happens).
Though I feel - if this isn't implemented already: the play that the was banned for should be logged (similar to a replay) so s can easily observe it to determine whether the player was actually cheating.