that's actually what cheaters wantYodaSnipe wrote: 1q18f
How about permaban + public announcement/humiliation of said cheater lol, cheater list thread!
forum
Poll 12: How should we deal with cheaters? 2o1u51
posted
Total Posts
210
A cheater is found (100% certain). What do we do with them? 4v6t6c
Total votes: 312
Polling ended
Xau_old
case 1 & 3:
even if ban is completely automated, e-mail by banned will let peppy spend time for inspection.
case 2:
worst because it cost more time than other.
So, problem is how to manage e-mail/pm from s who cry liike "I am not cheater, recover my " or something like that.
One solution is ignore whole pm from banned .
I don't think we need to care petition from cheater whom peppy identified 100%.
so I 3 + (irc!) // ignore whole pm/mail about petition for ban.
We need to talk about cheater ~99%(by peppy), but that should be in another thread.
even if ban is completely automated, e-mail by banned will let peppy spend time for inspection.
case 2:
worst because it cost more time than other.
So, problem is how to manage e-mail/pm from s who cry liike "I am not cheater, recover my " or something like that.
One solution is ignore whole pm from banned .
I don't think we need to care petition from cheater whom peppy identified 100%.
so I 3 + (irc!) // ignore whole pm/mail about petition for ban.
We need to talk about cheater ~99%(by peppy), but that should be in another thread.
Xau_old
of course, but again this is talking about new guidelines.asdasdasd654456 wrote: 6l731f
of corse but (again) lunah can blablabla others can too blablabla
What cheaters want is attention. All this "second chance" crap is attention they don't deserve. Ban attention is enough to minimize damage at low time cost. There is no way to deal with cheaters without giving them attention, other than automating the system (which is insecure).asdasdasd654456 wrote: 6l731f
that's actually what cheaters want
Just change your s on your s to jibberish that you won't , get a new throwaway email, change your IP address and get a new identity. This is impossible to stop. Why are people so attached to an online identity anyway?
may i say that you're missing the point. it's not the , it's the person. even if you kept one legit and didn't cheat you still cheated on another .asdasdasd654456 wrote: 6l731f
why can't i have one? I already agreed to reset my main even being legit, thats only for main cheaters right? I sereasly ask peppy to check my case again..
^Sakura Hana wrote: 6eqm
The point is that you're not allowed to cheat on any .
the online identity part i don't know.ziin wrote: 1o1846
that's actually what cheaters want
What cheaters want is attention. All this "second chance" crap is attention they don't deserve. Ban attention is enough to minimize damage at low time cost. There is no way to deal with cheaters without giving them attention, other than automating the system (which is insecure).
Just change your s on your s to jibberish that you won't , get a new throwaway email, change your IP address and get a new identity. This is impossible to stop. Why are people so attached to an online identity anyway?
as for cheaters, they want one of two things
1. the easy way to something hard, cause they're lazy to get better
2. the easy way to something hard, but this time because they wanna show off and or troll those who can't do it
most likely the second choice. i don't see that many cheaters anymore who do the first choice, or it could just be me
As for limiting the attention they get when they get banned or something, that's too hard. One point or the other the truth will slip out.
True. we can't stop them. Doesn't mean we shouldn't try though, what, are we just gonna let them go around being unfair to the other players?SilentKiller wrote: 4h6o3r
How about just not give a shit lol. If they cheat and wanna come back its not hard to make another . Your never gonna stop cheaters.
Ok. in theory, option 3 works, but again, they'll just multi. as i said earlier, cheaters want attention. And although being able to go get a score using a cheat while in their , they can't really show it off and get attention, either no one would pay attention to him since his score isn't submitted anyway, or becasue they know he cheated. cheaters might multi again to get around this.peppy wrote: 6w4l42
When I am talking " access", I mean letting the to chat/forums. We still keep access to the and have all relevant data, so it wouldn't change how easy it is to track people.
depends on the cheating
i think people that use spin macro or have a really low amount of hacked scores should get their s reset, but banned if they do it again.
i think people that hack (autoplay, memory, flashlight, etc.) should have reset scores, and unable to submit scores (or permanently banned if they stop g in).
i know several people that have cheated in the past but stopped doing it too, that's an issue as well...
i think people that use spin macro or have a really low amount of hacked scores should get their s reset, but banned if they do it again.
i think people that hack (autoplay, memory, flashlight, etc.) should have reset scores, and unable to submit scores (or permanently banned if they stop g in).
i know several people that have cheated in the past but stopped doing it too, that's an issue as well...
mac spoofing is beyond easyXK2238 wrote: f6g9
MAC ban is enough I think, people will have to buy a whole new PC to continue cheating, which is very fund-draining, and they won't be brave to cheat anymore. \o/
(Voted for permanent ban)
a simple google search yields this
I was about to say this, but I just had to read the whole thread before posting. Good thing I'm not the only one.palion wrote: 6gq4k
mac spoofing is beyond easyXK2238 wrote: f6g9
MAC ban is enough I think, people will have to buy a whole new PC to continue cheating, which is very fund-draining, and they won't be brave to cheat anymore. \o/
(Voted for permanent ban)
Imagine what would happen if the cheater accidentally used your MAC address...
On-topic: I'm having difficulties on choosing between option 1 and 3. Option 1 may be a bit too harsh, but then again Option 3 can be a bit too forgiving as well.
(Voted Option 3 anyway)I would like to see that if the cheater is found, perma-ban it right away. But depending on how they do the appeal (strictly via e-mail), we can then go for Option 3 for a month and keep logging their activity without touching the online scoreboard. They can enter online feature again after a month (or whatever duration as you wish) of restrictions. But if they found to be cheating again anytime (even after they're free from the restrictions), perma-ban without anymore mercy.
This method can be effective, only if we can find a way to prevent multi-s s. Unfortunately, I can't see any plausible method for this...
(I'm also hoping that peppy can find a way to detect Flashlight cheatings. Perhaps with some unique algorithms applied to the Flashlight mod)
I think if any bannable offence happened only once in the past, a should receive fair warning of consequences if they keep such behaviour (+ delete the record of score gained by foul play). If then they decide to continue, permament ban without possibility to appeal (or whatever you choose).
If said cheated multiple times, instant perm should be applied.
An additional line mentioning this in the main menu could also be added.
If said cheated multiple times, instant perm should be applied.
An additional line mentioning this in the main menu could also be added.
Get the ip, go to their homes and kill them, after that expose his/her corpse on uppy!..................wait!
Nah!, screw them all; permanent bann, no exceptions.
I was thinking of the second chance but if it happens once, could happen again. So no.
Erase the score sounds nice but not energic enough.
There is a way to get the ip and post it no matter is the actual ip or a spoof?. Like, sending a message.
Nah!, screw them all; permanent bann, no exceptions.
I was thinking of the second chance but if it happens once, could happen again. So no.
Erase the score sounds nice but not energic enough.
There is a way to get the ip and post it no matter is the actual ip or a spoof?. Like, sending a message.
Winshley wrote: 5616h
(I'm also hoping that peppy can find a way to detect Flashlight cheatings. Perhaps with some unique algorithms applied to the Flashlight mod)
It does. The fact you don't know it's there means it's doing a good job; it should not interfere with normal s at all.navy0333 wrote: 1p1th
i think osu! should have a antihacking system...... like other online games.....
Score reset, depending on the intensity of cheating.
If it's a new , made just for the heck of cheating, permanently ban it of course.
If it's a player who's been here for quite a while and cheats on 1 or a few maps, score reset him but keep his .
If he'll cheat on like 10+ maps, then I'd suggest an ban as well.
If it's a new , made just for the heck of cheating, permanently ban it of course.
If it's a player who's been here for quite a while and cheats on 1 or a few maps, score reset him but keep his .
If he'll cheat on like 10+ maps, then I'd suggest an ban as well.
^GladiOol wrote: 6o3k6y
Score reset, depending on the intensity of cheating.
If it's a new , made just for the heck of cheating, permanently ban it of course.
If it's a player who's been here for quite a while and cheats on 1 or a few maps, score reset him but keep his .
If he'll cheat on like 10+ maps, then I'd suggest an ban as well.
Combination of Option 1 and 3.
Option 1 would be alone useless because every Derp can use proxy so he can continue to hack.
Option 3 would be the best way because it's theoretically the same as Option 1. But people will know that he hacked.
And not just because his name was ololololololololololololololo. About the combination:
Like GladiOol said:
Option 1 would be alone useless because every Derp can use proxy so he can continue to hack.
Option 3 would be the best way because it's theoretically the same as Option 1. But people will know that he hacked.
And not just because his name was ololololololololololololololo. About the combination:
Like GladiOol said:
If he'll cheat on like 10+ maps, then I'd suggest an ban as well.It would be the best way after some Resets to ban.
"Hey, this friend of mine can prove I didn't really cheat!eldnl wrote: 663i2l
I can't see the problem with that.palion wrote: 6gq4k
too subjective
Yes! I know him in real life, he's no cheater! His skill is amazing!
Oh okay, just because he said so
*hacks again*
Didn't you tell me he wasn't a cheater?
He told me to say that to you, I'm sorry peppy ;~;"
peppy can't make decisions based on testimonies like that, I say. In the case he is/was a cool guy to have around (imagine a BAT was banned for cheating), the permaban should still apply; the punishment shouldn't get softer for anyone in particular.
Shohei Ohtani
Two thingseldnl wrote: 663i2l
I can't see the problem with that.palion wrote: 6gq4k
too subjective
1) Friends will generally their friends. They could be a huge cheater, and they'll know it, but they'll go "omg he was nice" just to get their buddy back
2) This make bans follow the Lunah/Mara/Gladi/Whoever Else clause, which means "Hey, I can do anything that I want to, because I'm popular and my fanbase will give the site hell if I'm banned"
Pretty much, cheaters should be banned. Maybe not perma-banned, but at least banned for a long period of time. None of this "oh people won't shut up about him so let's not ban him." crap. That's what pisses me off every time someone popular gets banned here. They do some stupid crap and everybody sees them as a god because they were so popular, even if an unpopular person did the exact same thing. There's so much damned leniency that it just makes the entire mod team lose its authority.
I don't generally criticize people this forwardly, maybe it's because I'm in the worst of moods today, but gaah, seriously, if you really feel the need to cheat after making yourself an established member of the community, then there's consequences. Nixon didn't get his ass popular'd into office after Watergate and stuff. Nobody went "Oh, he's a nice guy, he's done so much for the country! Let's give him a second chance!"
For every action, there's a consequence. I've been banned from so many places, and I know that if I'm doing stupid stuff, then I'll get a punishment. Hell, within the year, I'll probably get banned from here. But I won't be pissed about it, as long as I know why I was banned, because I'll know that I'm just getting the consequence that comes with doing a misdemeanor. I don't have the popular crap behind me, because most of the people in power pretty much hate me and aren't afraid to it it, so maybe I'm "biased" in a sense. But I was great friends with a lot of people who got banned. I wasn't mad, or angered, because I knew that, I apologize for the cliche, if you can't pay the time, then don't do the crime.
I didn't even read what the thread was about, so I may look completely stupid right now.
So yeah, although I'm not like "PERMA-BAN ALL THE ", because I know that people do turn around, and people sometimes make misguided mistakes, there should still be some sort of punishment that is more then just a few days, especially for popular people that get banned. If you're going to ban them for a year, then they should be banned for a year. I've had year-long bans before, and you know what I did? I took it like a man. I ed some other places and waited until my ban was over, then improved myself to not be such a dumbass next time.
.-.
"Really nice guys" don't cheat.eldnl wrote: 663i2l
Ask to the comunity (people who know him) if they are really nice guys and deserve a second chance. But for totally shameless guys must be a permanent BAN.
And usually anyone who cheats is already aware of the consequences, but just want to risk in hopes of not getting caught (or asking for second chance if they are eventually found out).
That said, I don't particularly care what happens to their s, as long as their hacked plays/scores are removed from the scoreboard and they don't cheat again. But a permaban sounds better.
Taiko_old
ampzz
Score reset, disable submission, but leave access is the only logical and viable option to compensate for the sheer lack of effect any IP ban as they are useless for ISPs that don't give out static IP addresses or people by them with a proxy.
Second chance could technically come after a grace period of n time as an added bonus to those who have decided to be both beneficial to the community (in the form of modding maps or just generally good forum behaviour) and come to with their length of time being forbidden from score submissions which means they have learnt from their previous mistake.
If they do it again there is no more chances and their is permanently blacklisted from another opportunity to become a regular again.
^ This helps to cover quite a few areas in this option. ^
Second chance could technically come after a grace period of n time as an added bonus to those who have decided to be both beneficial to the community (in the form of modding maps or just generally good forum behaviour) and come to with their length of time being forbidden from score submissions which means they have learnt from their previous mistake.
If they do it again there is no more chances and their is permanently blacklisted from another opportunity to become a regular again.
^ This helps to cover quite a few areas in this option. ^
peppy wrote: 6w4l42
To me, being beneficial to the community doesn't make any difference if they are doing harm secretly. Instant negation of any positive in my eyes.
ontopic: I think the only option is to permanently ban the player. The other two options seem almost rewarding, especially considering
those players who'd like a score reset in order to improve statistics.
Waryas
Most people have a dynamic ip on multiple 255.255.0.0 range (65535*X ips), so it's useless to ban by IPs.
People with static IPs can get a new one by changing their router mac and forcing the dh server of their isp of giving them a new one.
Banning MAC? byed in 2s. Banning some sort of hardware GUID? byed in 2s.
There is no by-proof way to ban and if someone is smart enough to cheat on osu i think he's smart enough to by a ban.
3rd option is the best choice.
People with static IPs can get a new one by changing their router mac and forcing the dh server of their isp of giving them a new one.
Banning MAC? byed in 2s. Banning some sort of hardware GUID? byed in 2s.
There is no by-proof way to ban and if someone is smart enough to cheat on osu i think he's smart enough to by a ban.
3rd option is the best choice.
then you lock her up in the basement and never let her see another man.Soly wrote: 4i1u2f
Exactly, it's like your wife cheating on you.peppy wrote: 6w4l42
To me, being beneficial to the community doesn't make any difference if they are doing harm secretly. Instant negation of any positive in my eyes.
The problem is that you can kick out the wife, but she always comes back, and always looks different, and you have to accept her back.
Unless you lock her up.
I think he's saying they don't cheat but want their stats reset from their bad play style so then they cheat to get that goal accomplished indirectly.Sinistro wrote: 3z5e6z
But they cheat. Their statistics are already enhanced.kriers wrote: 615o5i
considering those players who'd like a score reset in order to improve statistics.
Voted for option 1, but after reading the thread, more inclined to option 3.
Second chances should not have been given in the first place. Some may complain that people who cheated before a certain date got a second chance compared to those who will not if this gets implemented; unlucky them.
Looking at osu! currently, there seems to be no way of blocking multis completely. No point in banning ip/MAC address/etc. A person who is intent on cheating is going to find new ways to cheat no matter what; good luck to the s on dealing with those.
As for why my opinion went from option 1 to option 3, the thread persuaded me that playing for score is only a part of osu!. If a previous cheater decides that what's done is done and decides to lead a new career, then fine. His score submission privileges won't return, but at least he can map/participate in community projects/chat/do whatever else that might please him. Let him use his old instead of creating a new one. Like I said above, those intent on cheating will carry on by any means anyway, so s are going to have to pay attention for those willing to regain their score submission privileges by creating new s, even if not necessarily for cheating. Cheaters do need to be punished after all, and that is in the form of score reset/prevention of submitting new scores.
Second chances should not have been given in the first place. Some may complain that people who cheated before a certain date got a second chance compared to those who will not if this gets implemented; unlucky them.
Looking at osu! currently, there seems to be no way of blocking multis completely. No point in banning ip/MAC address/etc. A person who is intent on cheating is going to find new ways to cheat no matter what; good luck to the s on dealing with those.
As for why my opinion went from option 1 to option 3, the thread persuaded me that playing for score is only a part of osu!. If a previous cheater decides that what's done is done and decides to lead a new career, then fine. His score submission privileges won't return, but at least he can map/participate in community projects/chat/do whatever else that might please him. Let him use his old instead of creating a new one. Like I said above, those intent on cheating will carry on by any means anyway, so s are going to have to pay attention for those willing to regain their score submission privileges by creating new s, even if not necessarily for cheating. Cheaters do need to be punished after all, and that is in the form of score reset/prevention of submitting new scores.
It isn't, I've played other games that the bans are like 1 month, 2 month 6 month or something like that depending on the cheat xDBeatofIke wrote: 3q196d
Well that is true...Sakura Hana wrote: 6eqm
I voted permaban, because well, every other game out there, cheating is a permanent ban so, why the hell would we be more lenient than that.
Yeah because sending a list of open processes and window names is a anti cheat lol. But to be real the worst thing you gonna get on this game is more than likely the flash light issue. Its not popular enough for someone to even bother messing with.peppy wrote: 6w4l42
Winshley wrote: 5616h
(I'm also hoping that peppy can find a way to detect Flashlight cheatings. Perhaps with some unique algorithms applied to the Flashlight mod)It does. The fact you don't know it's there means it's doing a good job; it should not interfere with normal s at all.navy0333 wrote: 1p1th
i think osu! should have a antihacking system...... like other online games.....
SilentKiller wrote: 4h6o3r
Yeah because sending a list of open processes and window names is a anti cheat lol. But to be real the worst thing you gonna get on this game is more than likely the flash light issue. Its not popular enough for someone to even bother messing with.
osu probably md5s dlls for a hashcheck (based off seeing osu!.cfg)
anyway, I think permanent ban is ineffective against cheaters because they can easily re- and provokes cheaters to hack more; the 3rd option is probably the best option here
I laughed so hard at this....palion wrote: 6gq4k
SilentKiller wrote: 4h6o3r
Yeah because sending a list of open processes and window names is a anti cheat lol. But to be real the worst thing you gonna get on this game is more than likely the flash light issue. Its not popular enough for someone to even bother messing with.
osu probably md5s dlls for a hashcheck (based off seeing osu!.cfg)
anyway, I think permanent ban is ineffective against cheaters because they can easily re- and provokes cheaters to hack more; the 3rd option is probably the best option here
Cheaters should be Banned Forever.
Ijah_old
Fact: ing otherwise private info (such as process lists and window/application data like osu! does without any end consent is very much illegal, here in the UK at least.SilentKiller wrote: 4h6o3r
Yeah because sending a list of open processes and window names is a anti cheat lol. But to be real the worst thing you gonna get on this game is more than likely the flash light issue. Its not popular enough for someone to even bother messing with.
if you know it, and yet u still play, it means u are consenting.Ijah wrote: 1tv3g
Fact: ing otherwise private info (such as process lists and window/application data like osu! does without any end consent is very much illegal, here in the UK at least.SilentKiller wrote: 4h6o3r
Yeah because sending a list of open processes and window names is a anti cheat lol. But to be real the worst thing you gonna get on this game is more than likely the flash light issue. Its not popular enough for someone to even bother messing with.
Its not public info. I`ve posted it before in the forums and it was removed very swiftly I might add. I dont see why there was such an issue with it if the information was being used correctly.Ijah wrote: 1tv3g
Fact: ing otherwise private info (such as process lists and window/application data like osu! does without any end consent is very much illegal, here in the UK at least.SilentKiller wrote: 4h6o3r
Yeah because sending a list of open processes and window names is a anti cheat lol. But to be real the worst thing you gonna get on this game is more than likely the flash light issue. Its not popular enough for someone to even bother messing with.
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Doesnt even state the use of data being transmitted. TOS should be updated to accommodate.
that's surprisingly astute from you, SilentKiller.
pretty much every program with any tangible from of "hack detection" will at the very least, check what processes are running on your machine to a list of "suspicious" ones determined by the distributors of the software. this is not new, and such information is probably never even seen by human eyes to begin with.
pretty much every program with any tangible from of "hack detection" will at the very least, check what processes are running on your machine to a list of "suspicious" ones determined by the distributors of the software. this is not new, and such information is probably never even seen by human eyes to begin with.
halo398
well how botu friendok impersonating my doing my from halo398 into halo 398 eh?Ijah wrote: 1tv3g
Fact: ing otherwise private info (such as process lists and window/application data like osu! does without any end consent is very much illegal, here in the UK at least.SilentKiller wrote: 4h6o3r
Yeah because sending a list of open processes and window names is a anti cheat lol. But to be real the worst thing you gonna get on this game is more than likely the flash light issue. Its not popular enough for someone to even bother messing with.
The main problem with leaving cheaters around, as seen in another game I play, is that they spread their cheats with their friends once they get caught. It's best to permaban.
Not like the war can be won against multi's tho, but atleast their friends list will be inaccessible.
And they're lazy to make multi's just to spread a cheat, which is why they cheat in the first place.
For example once they get their scores reset, they just float around doing stuff and even cheating like before if they know they're given a second chance by the 'system' of 'not-banning.' They talk to people, and before long, this guy is offering 'you' cheats.
It's happened to me in 2 other games already where I had considerable skill, cheaters got caught, and they were my friends, but they stuck around and soon offered me the cheats. Naturally due to my personality of striving to improve my coordination skills, I refused.
Not like the war can be won against multi's tho, but atleast their friends list will be inaccessible.
And they're lazy to make multi's just to spread a cheat, which is why they cheat in the first place.
For example once they get their scores reset, they just float around doing stuff and even cheating like before if they know they're given a second chance by the 'system' of 'not-banning.' They talk to people, and before long, this guy is offering 'you' cheats.
It's happened to me in 2 other games already where I had considerable skill, cheaters got caught, and they were my friends, but they stuck around and soon offered me the cheats. Naturally due to my personality of striving to improve my coordination skills, I refused.
halo398
You'll probably be safe from being considered a cheater or anything of the like then.Rock Forever wrote: 725d4w
what is a cheater?, I say because I dont wanna accidentally do something that I regret later. XD
However, cheating and the like usually comes from using an external program to give an unfair advantage to the player and/or editing data files on osu!. If one change the way the program behaves that only they will unfairly benefit, then that's cheating.
EDIT: Also, take a good read of this.
Heyyaa ~
Me and CaCtus112 were thinking of an own let's call it Anti-Cheating/Hacking-Team in/at osu! just like the Beatmapping community got BAT and MAT, the like gaming/rank community should have an Anti Cheat Team, maybe o:
Still, it would be hard to ban all the Hackers and Multi-s out there, but having an own team of people who search for those hackers/cheaters, reporting them and finally ban them, would possibly make the whole cheating-situation a bit better. Maybe x:
I dun know if that is a good idea or not ..
Me and CaCtus112 were thinking of an own let's call it Anti-Cheating/Hacking-Team in/at osu! just like the Beatmapping community got BAT and MAT, the like gaming/rank community should have an Anti Cheat Team, maybe o:
Still, it would be hard to ban all the Hackers and Multi-s out there, but having an own team of people who search for those hackers/cheaters, reporting them and finally ban them, would possibly make the whole cheating-situation a bit better. Maybe x:
I dun know if that is a good idea or not ..
They are not so many cheaters out. If it's clearly to see that they cheat, they get banned as soon as possible.Hawkii wrote: 1g1429
Still, it would be hard to ban all the Hackers and Multi-s out there
If there's no obviously evidence to see, it will be harder to give a reason to ban, yes.
But seriously, every 40.000th player cheats. So a Team isn't neccessary since the Mods here can ban/reset scores.
As someone who's never been banned I have no clue to what extent a banned is denied access to the game, but I really wouldn't bother with second chances on the cheating thing. The third option (Ban them from score submissions forever, but leave access to games, forums etc open) is what I think is fair.
You can also have BanchoBot warn players about their cheatery status whenever they to a multiplayer game. It'll trail them forever, kinda like a criminal record, heh heh.
You can also have BanchoBot warn players about their cheatery status whenever they to a multiplayer game. It'll trail them forever, kinda like a criminal record, heh heh.
Sounds interesting. They can be labeled the same way as banned s before, who had a sign under their picture saying that they're banned.loldcraft wrote: x3s21
Third offenders need to have cheater labeled clearly on their profile page, from then on they are free to cheat for all they care.
EDIT: whoops, I'll check timestamps next time.