This beatmap was submitted using in-game submission on November-18-12 at 3:19:37 PM

Artist: Sakakibara Yui
Title: Aqua Voice (Short Ver.)
Source: Asanagi no Aquanauts
Tags: eroge opening cRyo[iceeicee] alacat Fizz visual novel
BPM: 75
Filesize: 15221kb
Play Time: 01:40
Difficulties Available:

1. alacat's Hard (4.68 stars, 226 notes)
2. cRyo's Insane (4.83 stars, 330 notes)
3. Easy (1.86 stars, 76 notes)
4. Normal (3.98 stars, 122 notes)

: Sakakibara Yui - Aqua Voice (Short Ver.)
: Sakakibara Yui - Aqua Voice (Short Ver.) (no video)
Information: Scores/Beatmap Listing
---------------
/x.x\ Revive \^^/

BG stolen from -HowLiNgR a r e's Collab :>
Easy - Me
Normal - Me
Hard - bakacat
Insane - icee-nyan
= pending in 2013 (ﾉ^^)ﾉ

I see this form timing request.

just check but i'm sure the piano part don't have correct bpm.

and i think it's better if you cut the song.
this song has same case like you but. ( it can find bpm but it's hard to play ) last decision is cut the song.
http://osu-ppy-sh.jeuxcrack.net/s/39120

and i'm sure you need to put offset at heavy beat your kiai time is not land at heavy beat(big white tick)

just change or add another offset here 00:13:782 ( i got +4 form your current offset)

and plz add Fizz to tags also it's game company.

goodluck

Timing request. Just want to help you :3
My timing :
BPM 150 - Offset 1166
BPM 174 - Offset 13767

That's all, maybe you need to tune that offset until it's not late or early. :3
No need so many red timing like now >.<

let's go ~ ></

Hard - xsrsbsns
Insane - cRyo[iceeicee]
= pending in 2013 (ﾉ^^)ﾉ

video: http://yadi.sk/d/vePl7m_s0QZAB

video offset: -229

Video,-229,"aqua.avi"

map the intro! ></

thanks h3k1 ^^
pending ~~

hi

[General]

1. why these diff are mapped from 00:10:796 ? I think it is able to map from 00:00:396 or 00:01:196.
   If you do not map it, remove lead-in. These diff do not need it.
2. Preview Time of guest diff is not same as other diff. not specified....
3. add "Fizz" and "visual novel" tag

[Easy]

1. 00:14:294 (1) - I suggest to have a symmetry with 00:15:673 (3)
   
   
   like this
   in addition, will be better to adjust the circle.
   
   
2. 00:35:845 (5) - this curve is too strong. curve make breaking beauty.
   
   
   I suggest this form.
3. 00:37:914 (2) - add finish. this is able to follow the song more.
4. 00:41:880 (2) - add finish in 00:42:570 ^
5. 01:06:880 (1) - I prefer to have the angle slider
   
   
   If slider have the angle, it is able to make better flow.

[Normal]

1. 00:18:604 (4) - slider do not follow song.
   
   I suggest this rythem.
   00:18:432 (4) - 00:18:777
   00:18:949 (5) -
   
   another suggestion
   
   00:18:432 (4) - 00:18:949
2. 00:37:914 (3) - add finish in start.
3. 00:41:363 (1) - ^
4. 00:53:777 (1) - I suggest to have a symmetry with 00:52:742 (4) and 00:55:156 (3)
   00:53:777 (1) - move to x:272 y:228
5. 01:00:673 (3,4) - add finish in each slider start.
6. 01:20:673 (3) - same as 00:18:604 (4)
   01:20:501 - add 3/2 slider is better.
7. 01:26:880 (1,2) - add finish in each slider end.
   and 01:27:914 (2) - remove clap in slider start.
8. 01:37:570 (5) - add finish in slider end

[alacat's Hard]

1. 00:22:742 (2,3) - I dislike this flow. this reverse slider make breaking flow.
   
   
   I suggest this.
2. 01:39:811 (1,2) - this volume is too small for the song.
   01:39:811 (1) - 35%
   01:40:156 (2) - 45%
   try this

[cRyo's Insane]

1. good

gl

ty!! only first mod in easy+normal not fixed..

ty modding ~ :3

change volume

http://puu.sh/1mCqj

From our queue \( ^_^)/ 5r5x3a

Red mods means must be fixed. Mods with question marks are only suggestion.

:S

[General]

1. Hitsound settings too low? Maybe raise it 10~20% higher?

[Easy]

1. 00:10:796 (1) - Add finish?
2. 00:53:087 (3) - :/ how about x:364 y:188 ?
3. 01:13:087 (1) - Remove NC?
4. 01:15:845 (1,2) - Combine into one slider?

That's all.

[Normal]

1. 00:24:811 (1) - Not perfectly "wiggled"
2. 01:16:535 (2,3) - Stack please?

Ok, this diff had already perfect imo

[alacat's Hard]

1. Hmmmm.... I detect so many jumps here, dunno if you actually made them or accidentally. But, imo, the current jumps here if compared with the spacing are confusing >< For example, try comparing spacing between 00:19:639 (2,3) - and 00:21:535 (7,1) - they doesn't look different imo
2. 00:10:796 (1) - ... A spinner with a muted end and after the spinner there were notes. Truly dangerous, end-muted spinners like this should be fixed, otherwise the players might get confused since the spinner ends without any audible signs, and might think too late for hitting the notes after this spinner. Remove the muted volume setting here
3. 00:26:190 (1,2,3,4) - Bad flow. Try stacking 1 & 2 to 3 and combine 3 & 4 into a slider with one reverse.
4. 00:33:777 (3,4) - Spacing?
5. 00:37:742 - Add note here
6. 00:40:328 (6,7) - spacing
7. 00:50:845 (4,1) - Unstack?
8. 00:57:570 (3) - Change into two notes?
9. 01:00:673 (1,2) - Spacing
10. 01:12:397 (1,2) - Inaudible notes, unrankable
11. 01:19:811 (4) - Move into x:264 y:24?
12. 01:19:983 (5) - Move the second point to x:332 y:172 to ensure better flow?
13. 01:22:052 - Add note here please
14. 01:23:777 (5) - Move to somewhere else maybe, since placing the note here might confuse players?
15. 01:28:949 (5,6,1) - Instead of this, it'll be better if you stack these. Placement like this might be confusing

That's all, nice job alacat :3

[cRyo's Insane]

1. 00:18:777 (1,2,3) - Bad flow, how about http://puu.sh/1ntlD ?
2. 00:26:018 (2,3) - Switch place? 2 to 3 and 3 to 2? placement i mean
3. 01:12:397 (1,2) - Inaudible notes, unrankable
4. 01:40:673 (1) - End the spinner at 01:41:708 - ?
   
   Okay, here's the thing. This map contains a lot of jumps, a lot of it. And you know, jumps is the place where flow and visual are combined together to make nice and juicy jumps. The problem is, the jumps here are mostly harshflowed and "simplely" made. Some jumps are too hard, some are confusing, some aren't even readable (since too much), and some are just bad to see. My suggestion is, try re-make and re-arrange the jumps here into more juicy, nice, fun and readable jumps. You know what I mean right, cRyo

Sorry for modding the diff too short ><

Nice map Mythol, good luck ^^

From my Queue ~


Must fix

Should fix

Suggestion


[General]

. Kiai timelines for cRyo's and alacat's diff are unsnapped. You will have to fix this ~

. Add to tags: " eroge galgame hentai "


[Easy]

00:14:294 (1) - Too soon after a Spinner for Easy diff, beginners will be confused for pretty sure I guess. Changing rhythm like http://puu.sh/1olUi could work much better
00:20:501 (2) - Consider adding whistles to start and end as they are following high tones like 1
00:44:121 (1) - Consider switching the whistle on start with finish. Tone doesnt sound really high and the new part sounds like a more better transition to the next with finish
00:59:294 (1) - Redo this shape with the new Sliders, that will give a more pleasing shape I guess
01:15:845 (1) - Hm, try finish instead of whistle, this sound more like following the song imo
01:26:880 (1,2,3) - I highly suggest to replace all the claps with finishes. It's Kiai time and finishes give a more powerful and kinda epic tone to your notes. If you follow this consider to higher the volume on the finish on 01:29:639 (1) -
01:37:914 (1) - I think 25 % for this Spinner's finish is a bit to quiet. Consider highering volume by 5 ~ 10 %


[Normal]

01:06:880 (4) - Could be a bit more pleasing to move it some grids up for a better blanket effect
01:11:018 (4) - Finish sound on end could make the effect of instruments a bit more interesting imo
01:26:880 (1,2,3,4) - That you did what I suggested in Easy is another argument for following what I pointed out for hitsound consistency between diffs.


[alacat's Hard]

00:45:501 (4) - Try whistle at start, emphasizes the high vocal pretty good
01:17:742 (5) - I guess this jump is a bit too huge for hard :/ reduce it a bit pleae, is more comfortable
01:27:914 (3) - Add clap to end as you have it on 1 to keep consistency
01:39:811 (1,2) - Consider using whistle for them and finish for 3. That would emphasize the end and follow higher tones at 1 and 2


[cRyo's Insane]

00:57:914 (4) - Try to give it the same shape as 00:55:156 (1) - I tried it and I think it has a cool flow
01:10:156 (3,4) - This jump plays really kinda bad. Try to change to the same spacing as 1,2,3 or imagine another place to put the jump but current feels odd
01:26:880 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - This plays kinda odd because of the stacked notes. I don't have a sulution for that, but maybe you are able to change it?



Well, that's all for now :3

Really good job, have a star ~

Good luck ~

inverness wrote: 1r6r5q

From our queue \( ^_^)/ 5r5x3a

Red mods means must be fixed. Mods with question marks are only suggestion.

:S

[General]

1. Hitsound settings too low? Maybe raise it 10~20% higher?

done

[Easy]

1. 00:10:796 (1) - Add finish?
2. 01:15:845 (1,2) - Combine into one slider?

That's all.
done

[Normal]

1. 01:16:535 (2,3) - Stack please?

Ok, this diff had already perfect imo
done

Nice map Mythol, good luck ^^

ty~

Konei wrote: 5x5237

From my Queue ~


Must fix

Should fix

Suggestion


[General]

. Kiai timelines for cRyo's and alacat's diff are unsnapped. You will have to fix this ~ they are snapped..

. Add to tags: " eroge galgame hentai " add eroge


[Easy]

00:14:294 (1) - Too soon after a Spinner for Easy diff, beginners will be confused for pretty sure I guess. Changing rhythm like http://puu.sh/1olUi could work much better will wait for XAT opinion
00:44:121 (1) - Consider switching the whistle on start with finish. Tone doesnt sound really high and the new part sounds like a more better transition to the next with finish ok
00:59:294 (1) - Redo this shape with the new Sliders, that will give a more pleasing shape I guess k
01:15:845 (1) - Hm, try finish instead of whistle, this sound more like following the song imo ok
01:26:880 (1,2,3) - I highly suggest to replace all the claps with finishes. It's Kiai time and finishes give a more powerful and kinda epic tone to your notes. If you follow this consider to higher the volume on the finish on 01:29:639 (1) - done
01:37:914 (1) - I think 25 % for this Spinner's finish is a bit to quiet. Consider highering volume by 5 ~ 10 % fixed


[Normal]
01:26:880 (1,2,3,4) - That you did what I suggested in Easy is another argument for following what I pointed out for hitsound consistency between diffs. fixed

Well, that's all for now :3

Really good job, have a star ~

Good luck ~

thx star! ^^

ty modding ~

http://puu.sh/1oBOI

Hi :3

[General]

just suggestion. KIAI Time end at 01:37:742 - here?

[Easy]

00:14:294 (1) - 1 grid left
00:18:604 (3) - move to (180,228) ?
00:20:501 (2) - last point of slider move to (184,272)
00:27:570 (1) - remove Clap and add Finish ?
00:28:259 (2) - remove Clap at end of slider
00:35:845 (5) - 1 grid left
01:09:639 (3) - move to (368,168) ?
01:15:845 (3) - why don't you try make triangle with (1), (2) ? move to (268,148) and adjust notes

[Normal]

00:24:811 (1) - move to (284,292)
01:06:018 (3) - add Finish at start of slider

[alacat]

HP -1
I think this maboring when play. cuz hitsound is so low. consider that
unused inherited point

1. 01:40:156 -

01:21:880 - can you make more note?
01:32:052 (6) - stack with (5) pls
01:37:742 (1) - Finish?

[cRyo]

AR -1 cuz AR 9 is so awkward to 150 BPM when play
HP -1
unused inherited point

1. 00:51:104 -

01:10:156 (4) - keep DS pls. that's not good
01:23:432 (5) - NC

01:23:432 (5,6,7,8) - i hate this pattern


sorry for my poor mod
good map!

Have a nice day

Thanks modding :3

http://puu.sh/1oTu3

Yeah AR 9 is really awkward on Cryo's Insane

I'll come back when you've made an update

00:01:196 - 75bpm, not 150. And not -404.

Where's cRyo

those wrote: 4o2b6g

00:01:196 - 75bpm, not 150. And not -404.

Unmapped part, but ok

cRyo coming back to china..
she'll update soon o:

Saten wrote: 5e2b6d

those wrote: 4o2b6g

00:01:196 - 75bpm, not 150. And not -404.

Unmapped part, but ok

spinner !

Dark Fang wrote: 5q1x2s

[cRyo]

AR -1 cuz AR 9 is so awkward to 150 BPM when play

BPM is 174 !

will reply mods later x x
http://puu.sh/1q6Oo

Hi ~ Mythol ~

Mod time for my Queue ~



Red : Must be fixed
Pink : Should be fixed
Purple : Just suggestions






That's all ~ Awesome map and nice song ~

Call me back recheck ~ when you are ready ~

Thanks Rika chan ^^/ all fixed

http://puu.sh/1qjCS

@Mythol

if you change about start of spinner ,Please change my diff >_<

those wrote: 4o2b6g

00:01:196 - 75bpm, not 150. And not -404.

fixed

Kawayi Rika wrote: 3r5631

01:40:501 (3) - Add new combo,because of spacing change.

I don't think this is necessary...
Everything else is fixed~
ty!

Thx for mods !!!
http://puu.sh/1qqS5

Recheck ~ No kds pls ~



Call me back ~

all fixed!

OK ~ Looks all fine now ~

Here you go :3



EDIT : After change second offset+6 ~

[General]

1. Red lines need to be added to fix Nightcore mode crash cymbals.
   
   1. 00:27:576 -
   2. 00:51:024 -

[Insane]

1. 00:21:196 (6) - Shorten to red or extend to white; this slider doesn't follow the same rhythm pattern as 00:19:300 (1) - where you actually hear drum in the background.
2. 01:05:507 (3,1) - Unstack; the way this is approached causes a stalling feeling (to compare, there's nothing wrong with 00:38:610 (8,1) - or 00:41:886 (4,1) - since they don't have the same feel).
3. 01:17:748 (4,1) - Like the above.
4. 01:32:058 (5,1) - And this one too, to a lesser extent.
5. 01:39:817 (1,2) - Should have an increase in spacing here.

[Hard]

1. AR8 makes all objects appear less cramped.
2. 00:53:265 (4,5) - what I said about the followpoints in アイの庭?

[Normal]

1. AR5 makes all objects appear less cramped.
2. 01:03:265 (1) - Combo pattern inconsistency
3. 01:18:610 (1,2,1,2) - Four of these sliders in a row makes this very anticlimatic, when you've reached an exciting part in the map.

[Easy]

1. 01:12:403 (1) - I'd simply remove this to give more time after spinner.

those wrote: 4o2b6g

[Hard]

1. AR8 makes all objects appear less cramped. ok
2. 00:53:265 (4,5) - what I said about the followpoints in アイの庭? o.o ok~ ^^/

Thanks modding

http://puu.sh/1qurX

Thanks mod !!

cRyo[iceeicee] wrote: 1i33e

they shouldnt follow any drumms on blue ticks

It's a rhythm game; mapping is based on following rhythms in the music. The real question is, why are you choosing to let it stop at 00:21:455 - which follows the other sliders' patterns which actually have something in the music, instead of stopping it at 00:21:498 - 1/8 or 00:21:520 - 1/16 before the next object?

cRyo[iceeicee] wrote: 1i33e

always using this kind of stacks, prefer to hold cursor instead of moving it to next note

Why do you think I didn't mention that 00:41:886 (4,1) - had a problem? It's the way that these objects are approached. The way you mapped 01:04:817 (1,2,3) - causes 01:05:851 (1) - to stall if stacked with 01:05:507 (3) - .

cRyo[iceeicee] wrote: 1i33e

01:39:817 (1,2) - Should have an increase in spacing here. nope, spacing is fine here

You didn't even space here. All you did was choose an arbitrary position for 01:39:817 (1) - based on 01:39:645 (3) - and you just horizontally flipped it. Roughly 1.40x spacing would make 01:39:645 (3,1,2) - much more even.

everything fixed my diff.. and added the red lines ==/

everything is following music, if you think this one is completely wrong, that means you have low knowledge about pattern variations that can be used in osu

The real question is, why are you choosing to let it stop at 00:21:455 - which follows the other sliders' patterns which actually have something in the music, instead of stopping it at 00:21:498 - 1/8 or 00:21:520 - 1/16 before the next object?

because this kind of patterns always stop like that

Why do you think I didn't mention that 00:41:886 (4,1) - had a problem? It's the way that these objects are approached. The way you mapped 01:04:817 (1,2,3) - causes 01:05:851 (1) - to stall if stacked with 01:05:507 (3) - .

as i said its fine to me and i want to play this notes at current position

You didn't even space here. All you did was choose an arbitrary position for 01:39:817 (1) - based on 01:39:645 (3) - and you just horizontally flipped it. Roughly 1.40x spacing would make 01:39:645 (3,1,2) - much more even.

if i placing 3 notes it doesnt mean that spacing should be equal........
spacing should be readable, and this one is readable.

Just a quickie mod since it's being discussed:

[General]
Tick rate 2 fits this song best.

[Easy]
00:10:396 (1) - The end is snapped wrong.
00:14:300 (1) - Too soon after a spinner for an easy. Give around 3-4 beats. You're also starting on an odd beat that will be difficult for a player of Easy skill to play.
01:02:748 (2) - new combo
01:24:817 (2) - ^

[Normal]
00:14:300 (1) - This is borderline too soon after a spinner for a Normal. I recommend you try something else, but if you insist, at least make the 1 slider closer to the center to aid in recovery.

[alacat]
00:20:334 (4,5) - A jump here would fit best considering 00:19:645 (2,3) -
00:40:334 (6,7) - Strange spot for a jump
00:50:851 (4,1) - Having these stacked breaks your flow and goes against the continuing nature of the musical section change here.
01:09:645 (1,2,3,4) - Accelerated spacing would work great here :3
01:14:472 (5,6) - The overlap with the end of the 6 slider looks really poor. I suggest you try a different pattern for a better visual effect.

[cYro]
00:10:596 (1) - End this with a soft hitsound set so you don't get that "pop"
00:34:386 (2) - Delete
00:38:524 (7) - ^
00:44:127 (3) - Repeat arrow is partially obscured by a hitburst - it'd be easy to adjust
00:46:800 (8) - Delete
00:48:179 (2) - ^
00:53:006 (5) - ^
00:54:817 (4,1,2) - Considering the large amount of stacked triple 1/4 rhythms, this was an odd encounter to come across
00:58:955 (7,1,2) - ^
01:01:196 (6) - Fits better like this

01:05:507 (3,1) - Ouch. That breaks the flow bad. D:
01:07:566 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - This part is fairly difficult in comparison with the rest of the map. It'd play better if it was similar in scope to what you did at 01:26:886 (2,3,1,2,1,2,1,2) -
01:15:075 (2) - Well, I think you get the idea. The majority of your 1/4 usage is out of sync with the percussion and plays awkwardly. They'd be better-placed when the drum does the small riffs like at 01:13:696 -
01:23:438 (1,2,3,4) - After such a huge rush of speed with these largely-spaced 1/4 sliders, running into the relatively super-slow slider at 01:24:127 (1) - is a huge letdown

Its not even mod, its something like do what Those said or you wont get ur bubble.
kk all changed, in fact i still not agree with any of this changes, just saying
http://puu.sh/1qwgv
Oh no not Garven plz...........
without even checking mod i already know he will remove half of my triplets \:D/

cRyo[iceeicee] wrote: 1i33e

everything is following music, if you think this one is completely wrong, that means you have low knowledge about pattern variations that can be used in osu

Please, don't insult people who are trying to help. This only makes you look bad.

I didn't check the map myself, but for what it's worth, every rejections of a suggestion should have a valid reason which is usually backed up by the music. Sometimes intentions can be made to add to the music instead, but reasons "i want it like this" or similar aren't actual reasons. I am not here to say that either of you are wrong, I am here to suggest that you give reasons which are more accepted to other people. This will make the person on the other end much more comfortable when it comes to approving of things.

looks like someone in bad mood today.. take it easy guys ><''

Garven wrote: 2k1v16

[alacat]
00:20:334 (4,5) - A jump here would fit best considering 00:19:645 (2,3) - ok , make more spacing
00:40:334 (6,7) - Strange spot for a jump keep now this jump o.o
00:50:851 (4,1) - Having these stacked breaks your flow and goes against the continuing nature of the musical section change here. ok
01:09:645 (1,2,3,4) - Accelerated spacing would work great here :3 ok
01:14:472 (5,6) - The overlap with the end of the 6 slider looks really poor. I suggest you try a different pattern for a better visual effect. hmm , I follow lyrics here >_<

Thanks Garven　(「・ω・)「

http://puu.sh/1qwFx

lolcubes wrote: u93m

cRyo[iceeicee] wrote: 1i33e

everything is following music, if you think this one is completely wrong, that means you have low knowledge about pattern variations that can be used in osu

Please, don't insult people who are trying to help. This only makes you look bad.

I didn't check the map myself, but for what it's worth, every rejections of a suggestion should have a valid reason which is usually backed up by the music. Sometimes intentions can be made to add to the music instead, but reasons "i want it like this" or similar aren't actual reasons. I am not here to say that either of you are wrong, I am here to suggest that you give reasons which are more accepted to other people. This will make the person on the other end much more comfortable when it comes to approving of things.

Im not trying to insult anyone....
This is quite simple, i saw few thote's maps, he is not using this kind of paterns, which means he #1- dont like it #2 dont understand it, thats why he is absolutely against it, i know mappers who using this kind of paterns and im sure they will say that its fine and can be used here
If we talking about easy gameplay i can agree that those suggestion plays easier.
But not every mapper wants to make easy map with 1.0 spacing and easy pattern, sometimes we make some tricky parts, overmaping, confusing spacing etc. because some player prefer something more then 1pc fc.
also i explained my reasons why i didnt want to change it...

Changed everything
Thank you those and Garven for this Collab ==/
http://puu.sh/1qxcU

cRyo diff is not fun anymore
Hope you guys are happy ==/
and all fixed in my diffs (no tick rate 2)

Just started the recheck - need to go over some stuff for the Insane since the applications were done more literally instead of capturing the spirit. It's a little lop-sided right now. I'll edit the rest in when I get some time.

[Easy]
00:13:783 (1) - Still too soon after a spinner. You need much more time than that. It might be best to just go without the spinner.
01:15:851 (3) - New combo

Normal and Hard look good.

Both points fixed on easy.
plz let cRyo keep some of her old patterns.. this new diff is now just like any other eroge map with nothing special
I asked cRyo cause she will make something unique and you guys are ruining this ==////////
if I wanted just a "rankable" diff I would have mapped it myself >.>

Your general attitude isn't exactly helpful towards me wanting to help the set out, that's for sure. You could say it's "ruining" my want to assist you.

As I have had to explain to cRyo many times before: most things here are suggestions in which I feel will make the map better and more true to the music. It seems a lot of the suggestions were taken without much thought to the rest of the map and the general quality is now much lower. I'm willing to work with her to get it up and running again, but please don't make it out to be us just forcing everything down your throats. It's the wrong attitude to take in the modding process and will only result in both sides being worse for the wear.

And honestly, the original map was more like most other eroge maps with the 1/4 spam everywhere. "Just rankable" is a foolish concept to pull out especially considering the points that have been raised for the map so far. If we were going for "just rankable" none of this would be here, and the ranked map pool would be downright abysmal.

Garven wrote: 2k1v16

most things here are suggestions in which I feel will make the map better and more true to the music

I applied all of them and now you saying that

general quality is now much lower

What does that supposed to mean \:D/ ?
The problem is not what you called *bad mappers attitude*, the problem is in something that you called *suggestion*
*Suggestions* is something that mapper can deny isnt it, unless there is some unrankable issue.
But your mods (especially those) isnt suggestion its more like ultimatum, fix or no bubble/rank
You simply trying to interfere your own patterns in our maps

p/1841574
absolutely same paterns, and absolutely same mod from those

same goes to Garven who always trying to remove this *overmap triplets*
If both of you dont like this patterns well just dont use it in ur own maps but dont forib us to use them

I saw hundreds maps in editor and i can say that this map doesnt have anything new, all this kind of patterns and overmaped triplets exist in hundreds ranked maps.
Im sure that Garven saw 10 times more maps then me, and i still surprised why he always against this triplets, if 2 years ago it was somekind of not ordinary patern, so today overmaping triplets its just something that exist in every 2nd map....

Also i want to mention that this drama treads always happenes with those mods, why no one complain about Niva, NatsumeRin, Andrea, Suzully because this moders give us choice, and those dont, Garven sometimes also doing the same but at least its possible to find compromise with him because he is not acting like robot.

And i was quite dissapointed to read such silly jokes from BAT member

those wrote: 4o2b6g

It's a rhythm game; mapping is based on following rhythms in the music. The real question is, why are you choosing to let it stop at 00:21:455 - which follows the other sliders' patterns which actually have something in the music, instead of stopping it at 00:21:498 - 1/8 or 00:21:520 - 1/16 before the next object?

The typical view you have of us is that if something is ranked in the server, it is forever fine to use in every scenario. When you list BAT like that, you're simply comparing our leniency; rest be assured that we are all trying to do our best in maintaining quality control. I haven't had the capacity to check your changes yet, but if you need a more in-depth explanation as to why stuff should be changed I can try to provide one.

However, here's some food for thought: a song that is fun mapped one way doesn't mean it won't be fun if it's mapped another way. We simply ask you keep up with ranking standards when you wish to have a map ranked on the server, and it is our responsibility to point out things that should be improved before ranking. If you're able to find a find way to map a song, surely you're able to find another - one which is more acceptable to our standards.

if something is ranked in the server, it is forever fine to use in every scenario.

Mostly yes, we dling maps checking them in editor and learning something new from other mappers
If map have not ordinary pattern/placement etc. we looking at map rating if its high that means that this kind of patterns can be used in our own maps and high rating says that players like it

we are all trying to do our best in maintaining quality control.

All i can say that ur mods is quite offencive, and i simply dont understand ur point of view
I explained my reason why i dont want to change anything and i dont understand why you keep pushing me to make all this changes, because as i said they doesnt make any sence for me......

but if you need a more in-depth explanation as to why stuff should be changed I can try to provide one.

ok

However, here's some food for thought: a song that is fun mapped one way doesn't mean it won't be fun if it's mapped another way.

Yes, but if its mapped fun in one way why should i search another fun way to map it ?

We simply ask you keep up with ranking standards when you wish to have a map ranked on the server, and it is our responsibility to point out things that should be improved before ranking.

I agree that if BAT thinks that map quality is not good for him and mapper dont want to make any changes, this BAT shouldnt rank it, but still he should return bubble if map dont have any unrankable issue, we will just wait another BAT thats all

If you're able to find a find way to map a song, surely you're able to find another - one which is more acceptable to our standards.

There is no such things as *our standarts* every mapper have his/her own standarts if something is not acceptable to you it doesnt mean that any other BAT member will have same problems.

cRyo[iceeicee] wrote: 1i33e

Garven wrote: 2k1v16

most things here are suggestions in which I feel will make the map better and more true to the music

I applied all of them and now you saying that

general quality is now much lower

What does that supposed to mean \:D/ ?

It means that you didn't read my post. You just applied everything in the literal sense, and then ignored the line that said that there were other spots as well with similar issue, but you ignored it since I didn't specify where. I know you're proficient enough in English to be able to understand that. From what I'm seeing, it's more that you're just folding your arms and doing things to the letter in obstinance rather than working with the suggestions to see if they work for your map or not. Modding is a two-way communication. The way you're acting, this isn't happening and now you can see the result.

>>The problem is not what you called *bad mappers attitude*, the problem is in something that you called *suggestion*
*Suggestions* is something that mapper can deny isnt it, unless there is some unrankable issue.
But your mods (especially those) isnt suggestion its more like ultimatum, fix or no bubble/rank

Where have I said that I am forcing mods for this particular issue? Once again, I wonder if you even actually read the posts...

>>You simply trying to interfere your own patterns in our maps

That's what modding is, cRyo. You're just putting a negative and slanted spin on it. Try to actually see why we make the suggestions instead of automatically going into this sort of back-lash. It's just making everything harder than it needs to be.

>>same goes to Garven who always trying to remove this *overmap triplets*
If both of you dont like this patterns well just dont use it in ur own maps but dont forib us to use them

If you can't see the gaping flaw in this statement, then there's no use in me pointing it out.

>>Im sure that Garven saw 10 times more maps then me, and i still surprised why he always against this triplets, if 2 years ago it was somekind of not ordinary patern, so today overmaping triplets its just something that exist in every 2nd map....

I'm sorry for being consistent in my views? I can accept the use of triple rhythms - I just found that your use of them was rather poorly placed and proposed a better placement guide to follow in which you ignored either by choice or by overlooking it.

Try to take a step back and see just what it is you're trying to say here. Right now it's mostly mudslinging with little aim or goal. I want to help you make the map better and get the set ranked. From what I've seen of this thread, I'm not really seeing anything positive coming from your statements.

To BATs and MATs,

What you think would make the map better isn't necessarily true for everyone else.

In the end it's just your opinion... don't force your opinion on others.

BAT opinion > all
those "i don't like this stack, i want to move cursor somewhere else"
cRyo " i like this stack, i want to keep cursor here"
guess who wins :/

also I lol'd pretty hard when I saw this

I guess BAT is truly boss now
follow orders or nuke

mochi wrote: 3u3l

To BATs and MATs,

What you think would make the map better isn't necessarily true for everyone else.

In the end it's just your opinion... don't force your opinion on others.

^ this.

How you interpret music is not the only way of doing it, and that's only the first step to mapping.

How you TRANSFORM your music into YOUR beatmaps.. Now that has countless possibilities.

Modding is one thing.
Popping someone else's map and refusing to rebubble unless your (imperfect) suggestions are followed is another.

Where have I said that I am forcing mods for this particular issue? Once again, I wonder if you even actually read the posts...

Currently here nope, i said overal, because sometimes you became very strict in such places where you shouldnt, like Tick rate - 2/ OD8/9 or B(☞ nuked (2 hours chat about tick rate -omg /==\)

That's what modding is, cRyo. You're just putting a negative and slanted spin on it. Try to actually see why we make the suggestions instead of automatically going into this sort of back-lash. It's just making everything harder than it needs to be.

I saw ur maps, no triplets (that dont exist in music), always OD8/9
And all ur mods about this, remove triplet, increase od (and tickrate2 ofc), you simply trying to make this map to look like urs, and yes im strongly against this kind of mods

I'm sorry for being consistent in my views?

i forgive you :333333333 wwwww

I can accept the use of triple rhythms - I just found that your use of them was rather poorly placed and proposed a better placement guide to follow in which you ignored either by choice or by overlooking it.

All this triplets make sence for me, they not random, i know why do i put it.

Try to take a step back and see just what it is you're trying to say here.

Well ok lets start from beginig

Those mod

00:21:196 (6) - Shorten to red or extend to white; this slider doesn't follow the same rhythm pattern as 00:19:300 (1) - where you actually hear drum in the background.

Other words i cannot use this kind of patern because there is NO SOUND on blue tick
And 1 more time, this kind of patern dont depend on beat on blue tick, the reason of this patern is different, and those simply dont understand it
Lets take this map
http://osu-ppy-sh.jeuxcrack.net/b/182268
00:14:567 (1) -
00:17:459 (1) -
00:21:434 (3) - this one even have beat in the middle of slider
00:26:133 (1) -
and even more and more, and all of this sliders dont have any beat on blue tick, but i know the reason why they placed like that, i understand why they placed like that, i did absolutely same thing (exept that mine is folowing BGmusic not vocal), and those dont understand it.
Also such words as *this doesnt exist in music = must be removed* not an option
This is clicking game you can use anything if it clickssss well, sometimes its better to ignore the music just to make better clicking, sometimes its better add something to click.
I can show you a lot of high rating maps which have something that simply ignoring the music, where patern dont folowing music, but all this maps is high rated which means people like to click it no mater what they hear in music.

To those posting flamebait: Stop. You're not helping anything at all. Direct your conduct towards getting the map set for ranking.

Edit:

I never forced tick rate 2. I simply explained why I suggest it. You obviously don't like to have it set to fit the music, and that is fine. It won't stop me from suggesting it still. Even in that 2 hour chat we had, I did not once say that you -had- to change it.

All of your other examples are in the same boat: I suggest it, but I don't force it. if I was trying to make others' maps into my own, my mods would be -very- different. The triples weren't random - I didn't say that. I simply felt that they weren't applied in the best place. I'll let those reply to your concerns about his mods though.

Rating doesn't mean much and you know it. Rating is more about the song than anything, unless the map is abysmal ('07/'08 maps).

Garven wrote: 2k1v16

I suggest it, but I don't force it.

k, rebubble please.

Maybe you should talk to those
i've given up trying to convince him many months ago that not everyone's opinion is the same
and there is no opinion superior to another (concept he cannot seem to understand)
You saw what happened Garven
cRyo denied his mods, so he calls his BAT friends and threatens to nuke
clearly anything we say won't achieve anything so maybe you can help us?

I never forced tick rate 2. I simply explained why I suggest it. You obviously don't like to have it set to fit the music, and that is fine. It won't stop me from suggesting it still. Even in that 2 hour chat we had, I did not once say that you -had- to change it.

No it was exactly like *you must change it* tick rate chat and OD-8/9 chat
If it was just simple suggestion that i can deny we wouldn have this 2 hours chat !
Or you just wanted to talk to me :3333 ?

The triples weren't random - I didn't say that. I simply felt that they weren't applied in the best place. I'll let those reply to your concerns about his mods though.

Such things as *this triplet plays bad* i cannot accept from you, sory but we both know that ur osu level is not that good (yes i spected you! :3)
If such thing came from Andrea/Chewin/MiLu (BAT/MAT/any High skill player) i would think twice before rejecting it, because all of them quite skilful players and there suggestions came during the playing, and im sure if they cannot play it well, then other lower skill players would have even more problems.

Rating doesn't mean much and you know it.

Nope it depends on the overal difficulty of the map.
If its easy 1pc fc map then yes, rating not saying anything
If map is difficult and have high rating that means that map is good, and all this overmaping works well here.

Please remind this, guys ._.

From all I read here, all what Garven did was giving suggestions and trying to explain them.

I prefer a pic that shows "Mapping is a happy thing" by Elly to the NTR one xD

anyways, I think mapping is something that you have to compromise each other.

Sometimes I got a mod and I didn't want to change anything (not suited my concept) but I tried to find ways to fix and kudo them back because he/she tried to help me.

I saw cRyo explained clearly that she wants to keep them. Is it bad ?
And cRyo has proved that her maps are nice. I see many players&mappers add her as a favorite mapper on their page.
So I do believe that her sense is not bad at all(I didn't check her map yet but I do believe).

About the Rating, You can say that it depends on songs but at least, she didn't rank a bad map to the whole community.
I can say honestly that there are many good songs which are mapped badly and got rating not too high. So Rating is still something that can imply the quality how you feel while playing though.

to those : This game you can't send your emotion through the letter that you typed (maybe in real life, you are the moe one and saying extremely politely xD)
but a forum thread doesn't allow you to reply an emotion like that, and it's sad that we still do have a barrier of the language. So this is why you have to compromise each other , like other BATs MATs, they won't care much if mappers don't want to fix because those are "Suggestions".

to Mythol&cRyo : Good luck on the beatmap xD , I am looking forward to play this when it's ranked !!

I wonder. How could such map get into argument?

Pokie wrote: 113j1p

I wonder. How could such map get into argument?

While s should mod maps regardless of mapper, mappers should read/apply/reject mods regardless of .
If you're wondering how these arguments start, there are two major issues in this: mappers taking ranking for granted then getting upset when a stricter BAT comes along ( a BAT that ranks just because, get a lenient mod and easy rank following, profit), and mappers thinking mods target the mapper instead of the map (e.g. "you're not a really good mapper because" vs. "this isn't mapped really well because").

Frostmourne wrote: 292v3n

I saw cRyo explained clearly that she wants to keep them. Is it bad ?

I'll use this opportunity to explain the three main points thoroughly so you can see why keeping them exactly the way the mapper had it is bad.

1. 00:21:196 (6) - This is a matter of consistency. By using a 3/4 slider and a circle following, the mapper is suggesting that this represents the same thing in the music as 00:19:300 (1) - , regarding both melody and drums. Also keeping in mind: if 00:21:196 (6) - was made 3/4, why wasn't 00:15:679 (3) - made 3/4? Why wasn't 00:17:748 (3) - made 3/4 + circle? This is more of a consistency issue; if 00:21:196 (6) - was shortened or extended it would eliminate this problem.
2. 01:05:507 (3,1) - This is a matter of object approach. This particular one was pointed out, whereas 00:38:610 (7,1) - and 00:41:886 (4,1) - were not. The difference between these is the usage of spacing before the stack is played. With a smaller spacing, there is less momentum and in turn, the stack after a small break will not feel as awkward. However, before the latest updated version, 01:04:817 (1,2,3) - was made of two very large jumps compared to the other objects around it. As a result, after 01:05:507 (3) - is played, a break may or may not be anticipated, but if the next object 01:05:851 (1) - is made a similar spacing as 01:04:817 (1,2,3) - , the momentum keeps the flow going. This is evident through thorough testing; even after many plays and knowing that the stack was there, I found myself moving the cursor away after I played 01:05:507 (3) - , and then the cursor moved back to the same location for 01:05:851 (1) - which felt very strange.
3. 01:39:817 (1,2) - This is a matter of spacing. Simply put, because certain objects had to be stacked and certain objects were meant to be a reflection, the places in which 01:39:817 (1) - can be placed are limited. By inspection, 01:39:817 (1,2,3) - should be as close to an equilateral triangle as possible to preserve spacing. All it takes is a little time to move 01:39:817 (1) - around and reflect it to get an appropriate spacing; at the state it was in (1,2) had 20% less spacing than (2,3), and it had 16% less spacing than 01:39:645 (3,1) - . This large margin of inaccuracy caused a not so comfortable movement for 01:39:817 (1,2,3) - , and this seems to be a result of an object just arbitrarily placed on the screen.

Perhaps it is my fault that I did not immediately post the above when I began to mod this map - or maybe I just didn't want to spend unnecessary time due to the history of "lolno" replies - or maybe the mapper's understanding wasn't exactly at the level required to see the reasons behind why the things I pointed out are problems without me pointing things out explicitly.

cRyo[iceeicee] wrote: 1i33e

Lets take this map
http://osu-ppy-sh.jeuxcrack.net/b/182268
00:14:567 (1) -
00:17:459 (1) -
00:21:434 (3) - this one even have beat in the middle of slider
00:26:133 (1) -
and even more and more, and all of this sliders dont have any beat on blue tick, but i know the reason why they placed like that, i understand why they placed like that, i did absolutely same thing (exept that mine is folowing BGmusic not vocal), and those dont understand it.

Except...only you're not doing the same thing. I understand why this was done this way, and I actually more or less approve of it, even though I believe it was only accidentally done the way it was (the only mistake regarding the current 3/4 sliders was at 01:23:422 (1) - ). Good try, though. Oh, and the cursor for that map isn't centered.

Frostmourne wrote: 292v3n

like other BATs MATs, they won't care much if mappers don't want to fix because those are "Suggestions".

Are you trying to tell me that I care too much about the ranking process, or are you trying to tell me that other BAT/MATs don't care enough?

I'd like to stress again:

those wrote: 4o2b6g

The typical view you have of us is that if something is ranked in the server, it is forever fine to use in every scenario.

Drop this view. Not every BAT has the time to mod every map, so if things slip past certain of the team it doesn't automatically make it fine. Call me one of the strictest BATs if you want, but that's all I am. I am not critiquing you; I am critiquing your map. I want to agree with you, I want you to agree with me, but if I've given my reasons you better do your part; it's your map anyway.

OK i understand, to use this kind of patern i need drum sound (any sound) on blue tick

http://osu-ppy-sh.jeuxcrack.net/b/177362
00:52:567 (8) - no sound on blue tick
01:08:039 (1) - no sound on blue tick
01:09:548 (1) - no sound on blue tick
01:11:058 (1) - no sound on blue tick
01:07:096 (6) - beat apperas at 01:07:284
Ur mod is like - YOU MUST follow music precisely, otherwise nuked
so
00:14:265 (3) - should ends 1 tick earlier
00:17:284 (3) - should ends 1 tick earlier
00:20:303 (3) - should ends 1 tick earlier
00:23:322 (4,5,6) - not exist in music
00:43:888 (1,2,3) - not exist in music
etc. etc. etc. etc.

Funny thing is
00:21:190 (6) - you saying this slider can be either shorten to 00:21:363, or extended until 00:21:535
Its like right way to fix this patern !
But how can i shorten it if there is NO DRUM SOUND at 00:21:363 ?
Isnt it against ur own rules ?
Why I dont need drum sound to end slider 00:21:363, but i need it if i want to end slider at 00:21:449 ?

Also keeping in mind: if 00:21:196 (6) - was made 3/4, why wasn't 00:15:679 (3) - made 3/4? Why wasn't 00:17:748 (3) - made 3/4 + circle?

Oh its very simple, that what we call *different variety of paterns*

About my stacks they plays absolutely fine for me, you cannot call it spacing error, unreadable patern etc
So that means i can simply reject ur suggestion about moving them to other places.
You saying they plays not good, well i want them to plays like that.
This is Insane, i can use any kind of spacing here, the only thing that it MUST be readable, and current one is clearly readable, i dont see any good reason to make this patern easier, if i want easy map i would use 1.0ds everywhere

I just didn't want to spend unnecessary time due to the history of "lolno" replies

There wasnt any *lolno* replies, i clearly explained everything in my first post
But there was some *lolno* mod, did you saw it ?
Oh yeah it was urs

Are you trying to tell me that I care too much about the ranking process, or are you trying to tell me that other BAT/MATs don't care enough?

You dont care you simply like to create drama from nothing.
Seems like you eng this kind of threads dont you ?

Call me one of the strictest BATs if you want, but that's all I am.

You acting like you know everything better then anyone else, thats all you are.

Except...only you're not doing the same thing.

KK
first sound - 00:21:196
second sound - 00:21:541
nothing between them
use long slider, fits ? YES
why did i end it on blue tick ?
to make second sound 00:21:541 clickable, emphasize this sound

NTR
first sound - 00:14:567
second sound - 00:14:928 (sound = vocal)
emphasize
use long slider, fits ? YES
why did i end it on blue tick ?
to start vocal with clickable patern, emphasize

those
first sound - 01:08:039
second sound - 01:08:416
nothing between them
use long slider, fits ? YES
why did i end it on blue tick ?
And your answer is ?!?!?!?

cRyo[iceeicee] wrote: 1i33e

You acting like you know everything better then anyone else, thats all you are.

cRyo, please note, that every BAT/MAT wants to help improving this map :<
I think those is just suggesting things of which he think could get improved.
But if you don't want to change with a valid reason it's your own decission.
So please end this drama and let's just try to find compromises instead of going wild on each other.

cRyo[iceeicee] wrote: 1i33e

OK i understand, to use this kind of patern i need drum sound (any sound) on blue tick

http://osu-ppy-sh.jeuxcrack.net/b/177362
00:52:567 (8) - no sound on blue tick This one is a mistake.
01:08:039 (1) - no sound on blue tick Listen for the bass note before the snare is played at 01:08:416 (2) - .
01:09:548 (1) - no sound on blue tick
01:11:058 (1) - no sound on blue tick
01:07:096 (6) - beat apperas at 01:07:284 Beat appears at both times, I could have done it either way but I chose this way.
Ur mod is like - YOU MUST follow music precisely, otherwise nuked
so
00:14:265 (3) - should ends 1 tick earlier
00:17:284 (3) - should ends 1 tick earlier
00:20:303 (3) - should ends 1 tick earlier
00:23:322 (4,5,6) - not exist in music
00:43:888 (1,2,3) - not exist in music Hi-hats. Perhaps you should turn up your speakers.
etc. etc. etc. etc.

Either I'm not following the right map, or your audio output device isn't clear enough for you.

cRyo[iceeicee] wrote: 1i33e

Oh its very simple, that what we call *different variety of paterns*

You're trying to shove "inconsistency" off as "variety". I don't think that's the right way to approach it.

cRyo[iceeicee] wrote: 1i33e

Except...only you're not doing the same thing.

KK
first sound - 00:21:196
second sound - 00:21:541
nothing between them
use long slider, fits ? YES
why did i end it on blue tick ?
to make second sound 00:21:541 clickable, emphasize this sound

NTR
first sound - 00:14:567
second sound - 00:14:928 (sound = vocal)
emphasize
use long slider, fits ? YES
why did i end it on blue tick ?
to start vocal with clickable patern, emphasize

There's a key difference that you seem to have missed. A place to start would be to wonder why I mentioned that 01:23:422 (1) - in Alicemagic wasn't done right. To give you a very obvious example:
http://osu-ppy-sh.jeuxcrack.net/b/192106 Compare00:30:058 (1) - and 00:31:904 (1) - .

Konei wrote: 5x5237

cRyo[iceeicee] wrote: 1i33e

You acting like you know everything better then anyone else, thats all you are.

cRyo, please note, that every BAT/MAT wants to help improving this map :<
I think those is just suggesting things of which he think could get improved.
But if you don't want to change with a valid reason it's your own decission.
So please end this drama and let's just try to find compromises instead of going wild on each other.

To add: if I didn't know that I knew better than you, I wouldn't be going on about this map.

cRyo[iceeicee] wrote: 1i33e

There wasnt any *lolno* replies, i clearly explained everything in my first post
But there was some *lolno* mod, did you saw it ?
Oh yeah it was urs

Btw, firstly nobody said your reply was a "lolno" reply and second those had good reasoning for his points, so yeah.

and mappers thinking mods target the mapper instead of the map (e.g. "you're not a really good mapper because" vs. "this isn't mapped really well because").

maybe it's just me
but when mods say something isn't mapped well when it's specifically the intention of the mapper to map it that way, that's more like an insult to the mapper and his/her style. For good mappers like cRyo, do you ever stop to think "okay, xxx is a good mapper, maybe they know what they're doing and what's best for their own map and I'm the one who's wrong?". Then you ask the mapper to think that way.

when I would mod maps, if someone denied a suggestion, I always figured they had a reason to keep it that way and hopefully I could look back and learn from what got denied. Sometimes I wouldn't understand it, but other times I would. Even a reason like "it's my style" or "I wanted it like this" could help me to learn a bit because I now know the mapper has some unexplainable reason for it based off feeling or something else. There is not just your own way to map a song, people have different ways of mapping based off their own feeling, and to actually improve a map mods need to understand that. What you're doing is more like "change it or nuke" which implies that you're the only one who knows what you're doing. The fact that so many people defended this map means most people find the way it was mapped makes sense and is fun to play, and so your attitude of "change it or nuke" when you can't understand how something is mapped just doesn't improve anything.

normally I would keep quiet. but i've seen enough of this > <//

EDIT:

those wrote: 4o2b6g

I've seen enough of this, too. But my "this" refers to "mapping with no justification".

The fact that so many people defended this map means most people find the way it was mapped makes sense

if people can understand it, it means there has to be something to be understood, e.g. the justification for mapping it that way.

I've seen enough of this, too. But my "this" refers to "mapping with no justification".

pieguy1372 wrote: 45704j

change it or nuke

Sorry, but I don't really understand where you got this idea at all.
When those actually said he would nuke if cRyo wouldn't fix his points?
I guess he would only nuke if this thread becomes to massive flaming insulting etc. (Which I can rather feel coming..)
So calm down a bit everyone and take your time to let things get settled.

Konei if you don't know it tells me you haven't really read the thread...
and pieguy we have been trying to tell those what you said many times, but he will never understand...
I'm pretty sure even if the whole world disagrees with him, he'll still think his opinion is superior

It stops being a matter of opinion when there's music to back it up.

this matter of "no music" is your opinion. we all see how it fits, but you don't
have you even read cRyo's reply?

Yes, but it seems she hasn't read mine. In addition, I make an effort in trying to understand your point, whereas my points get ignored with excuses.