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[Proposal] Change wording for drain time requirements for spread rules. 4g6p37

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Topic Starter
Nyanaro
Currently in the osu! ranking criteria;
(the other modes have their own version of this, with similar wording)

If the drain time of each difficulty is...

...lower than 3:30, the lowest difficulty cannot be harder than a Normal.
...between 3:30 and 4:15, the lowest difficulty cannot be harder than a Hard.
...between 4:15 and 5:00, the lowest difficulty cannot be harder than an Insane.
Break times may be combined with drain time to meet the above thresholds. For the highest difficulty, this is limited to at most 30 seconds of break time. This does not apply to difficulties with less than 30 seconds of drain time.

There has been some discussion in the current spread rewrite thread about this.

The reason this rule exists to begin with is to not force people to make sections they would normally have as breaks in order to meet spread requirements. I believe this rule is good, and useful, but the wording can be improved.

I have identified 2 core issues regarding the current wording of the above;

1. Intros and outros are not ed for in this, so if someone would want to skip mapping the intro for a lower difficulty, they would have to add more difficulties to a spread in some cases.
2. The wording of "combining break time with drain time" is confusing to some.

Here's my suggestion on changing the above:
If the play time of the hardest difficulty of a mapset is...

...lower than 3:30, the lowest difficulty cannot be harder than a Normal.
...between 3:30 and 4:15, the lowest difficulty cannot be harder than a Hard.
...between 4:15 and 5:00, the lowest difficulty cannot be harder than an Insane.

The above would address both of these issues, by redefining drain time + break time as play time (the time between the first and last objects of a beatmap), and also limiting the length of the entire mapset's spread requirements to just the top difficulty, allowing for lower difficulties to have unmapped intros/outros. I also propose removing the 30s limit on breaks, as this is highly dependent on the beatmap, hence my lack of including it.

An alternative version of this proposal that I'm also suggesting is:
If the play time of the longest difficulty of a mapset is...

...lower than 3:30, the lowest difficulty cannot be harder than a Normal.
...between 3:30 and 4:15, the lowest difficulty cannot be harder than a Hard.
...between 4:15 and 5:00, the lowest difficulty cannot be harder than an Insane.

This would move the responsibility of the hardest difficulty of a set being the longest, to simply any difficulty of a set being of sufficient length. I personally prefer this second option more, as it allows for more mapping flexibility, but I can see the potential issues with abuse.


Currently in Okoayu's spread.md reads;

Based on the highest drain time difficulty in a set, the lowest required difficulty changes.

If the beatmap consists of 2 songs combined together, the minimum spread requirements of the longer song applies.
For certain song types and game modes, up to 30 seconds of break time can be included in the hardest difficulty of a set to meet the listed thresholds.

This could be changed to;
Based on the play time of the hardest difficulty in a set, the lowest required difficulty changes.

If the beatmap consists of 2 songs combined together, the minimum spread requirements of the longer song applies.
OR
Based on the play time of the longest difficulty in a set, the lowest required difficulty changes.

If the beatmap consists of 2 songs combined together, the minimum spread requirements of the longer song applies.


Also, this proposal only intends to redefine some surrounding "drain time". It has nothing to do with length requirements of mapset spreads themselves. I'm aware there are changes in those in the current proposal, this post is not intended to comment on them or suggest changes related to them. I included the current RC in wording just for clarity.
Okoayu
Since play time is not considering intro and outro time i think that is easier to parse, given the stub information page, i think i'll apply this.

The longest difficulty had the caveat that it was really easy to cheese. Just have less breaks in the hard diff or whatever and be lazier in top diff i think that was the rationale for not having it

I think longest difficulty would need a caveat guideline attached to it for it to work

i.e.
- the shorter difficulties should have similar play times to the longest difficulty in the set, excluding skipped intro and outro times.
- the shorter difficulties should not use breaks more frequently than roughly once a minute and, depending on the song, keep them to reasonable lengths


re: removing the 30s grace... I think having it around is confusing, so generally i'm for removing it, but i'd prefer to just lower the numbers by 30 seconds to take the burden off the mappers and call it a day, but im not sure how popular that take is

at least in osu! i think we have enough low difficulties; and from previous relaxations we've seen that it won't stop people from just making the diffs if they want them anyways so
Topic Starter
Nyanaro
re: removing the 30s grace... I think having it around is confusing, so generally i'm for removing it, but i'd prefer to just lower the numbers by 30 seconds to take the burden off the mappers and call it a day, but im not sure how popular that take is
I think it's reasonable to just rid of any kind of limits for breaks and just leave it up to case-by-case. There are definitely songs out there that call for lots of breaks and making spread rules based on play time rather than drain time just takes breaks out of the question entirely, ending up with a far more legible ranking criteria for spread rules.
RandomeLoL
Think it is worth specifying what difficulties the drain times are making reference to yes, though I don't think this has been implemented on other modes yet?

osu!mania uses the word "any", which is extremely ambiguous. Does it make reference to all difficulties, and that all of them need to abide by the thresholds? Is it making reference to the minimum/maximum out of everything?

In of actually making clear which difficulty/difficulties need to follow these requirements to know what threshold to follow.

Agree on the guidelines provided by Oko if it avoids potentially abusing it.
Okoayu

Nyanaro wrote: 6l5dz

re: removing the 30s grace... I think having it around is confusing, so generally i'm for removing it, but i'd prefer to just lower the numbers by 30 seconds to take the burden off the mappers and call it a day, but im not sure how popular that take is
I think it's reasonable to just rid of any kind of limits for breaks and just leave it up to case-by-case. There are definitely songs out there that call for lots of breaks and making spread rules based on play time rather than drain time just takes breaks out of the question entirely, ending up with a far more legible ranking criteria for spread rules.
I think this wasn't done because people didn't want everyone to attempt cheesing it

The 30 seconds leads to some goofy scenarios but at least it is readable in that context. As I said I'm in favor of somehow doing this, but I think in that case we need to have something that handles people trying to abuse it.

I also, eventually, want to replace the table solution in the draft with a flowchart-style image of sorts
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