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Touhosu! / Dodge the Beat 2a233l

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523
This is a feature request. Feature requests can be voted up by ers.
Current Priority: +12,291
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Oinari-sama
osu! Alumni
3,403 posts
ed July 2010

Mithost wrote: 346313

Don't know what to do for spinners. We could make them press the up arrow to the beat or something to do a little taunt or dance, but I'm not sure.
Seems like interesting wall of text. I'll read the entire post tomorrow after a good sleep.

For time being, here's a quick take on possible spinner adaptation. I'll use my favourite Ran as example.

Fast farward to roughly 5:00. The prep for spinning laser starts, firing moments later. The character is forced to move with it. The guy in the video got pwned for not moving with it =.=

To do something similar in osu, the mapper can use different geometrical arrangements while always leaving safe spots at various distances from centre of rotation. From the scoring point of view, obviously the "spin rate" is controlled by the boss, not the player (ie constant angular velocity). However the player can choose to do easier spins by staying closer to the centre of rotation (ie lower linear velocity), or move in a safe spot further away from the centre of rotation to get score bonus (higher linear velocity, more distance to cover per rotation).

If that sounds confusing, just look at the video. If a player stays closer to the centre of the rotation, he/she can move rather "slowly" compared to someone who stays on the rim of the spinning laser (if we focus on only the laser and ignore all other bullets temporarily). Obviously it's harder to control when you have to move faster so the player should get score bonus for it. Of course, the mapper will have to balance the danmaku so that the "safe spot" during spinning laser should be the same size no matter how far it's placed from centre of rotation to justify for the bonus given.

Mithos
632 posts
ed February 2011
It's a cool pattern, but I don't think it would match well with 1) How spinners usually fit in songs 2) My idea on how the game would work and 3) How spinners work score wise in osu!standard
Sakuya Lv9
25 posts
ed May 2012
Here is the original Remilia mini-game (Just FYI):
(The game consist of 10-ish mini-games then a remix, just like rhythm tengolku)
SPOILER
that there is only 2 buttons active in that game. One for "hit-circle" and one for "slider".


Mithost wrote: 346313

It's a cool pattern, but I don't think it would match well with 1) How spinners usually fit in songs 2) My idea on how the game would work and 3) How spinners work score wise in osu!standard
Spinners are ignored in mania too.


Mithost wrote: 346313

......The source of bullets will be a circular entity. It will pulse to the beat, making a translucent circle that expands towards the player (probably at the designated approach rate from osu!standard maps). This would be like the barline on taiko or osu!mania. Any and all hit objects will be placed on these circles. If a hitobject is placed off of a beat, (eighth/sixteenth notes), a fainter circle will be put there to indicate that there is a hitobject there......
Some FYI information: In rhythm tengoku, it's basic that you MUST match the beat, so sometimes it's easier to listen to the cue rather than looking. That's what they did in rhythm carnival scarlet too. Everything has a cue(mostly). BTW the remilia beat game, it only takes 2 keys, one for normal beat and one for hold.

I think your idea would work well, but to me it sound like taking away the fun. It sounds like to make a touhou-themed rhythm game rather than to make a rhythm game based on a danmaku game. I think the danmaku is mostly what we are looking for here. And as I said earlier, there is not really a way to generate danmaku.
Oinari-sama
osu! Alumni
3,403 posts
ed July 2010
Each person should feel free to propose their ideas, cause I think peppy will do things his way at the end of the day so there's no need for us to "finalise" our discussions. Our discussions here only serves as peppy's inspiration so feel free to organise your ideas and post them here.

So here's my take on how Touhosu can be implemented. It's going to be a long post so I'll try to use as many pictures as possible to make it easier to read. Bear with me :)


Basic Gameplay Concept
BASIC GAMEPLAY CONCEPT

Similar to TH9.5 "Shoot the Bullet," the player will not be firing any of her danmaku at the boss. The focus of the game will be dodging bullets and get high scores. Yes, that means NO BOMBS.


Health/HP Bar

Player starts with full health. There is a constant HP drain as soon as the map section starts, ie if a player sits there and do nothing he/she will die (fail).
Each hit objects (explained later) cleared will give the player some health back. To a map the player must constantly clear hit objects throughout the map.
Another way to lose HP is to get hit by the bullet. A "hit" is only ed when the "hit box" touches a bullet (refer to the picture below).




Hit Objects

The basic building block in this idea is an invisible string connecting 2 adjacent bullets together.

A Hit Object is cleared when the player es through the gap between 2 bullets (break the string). Once cleared, a hit object cannot be activated again.








Player Control
  1. Mouse/tablet movement to navigate Player position
  2. Up/Down/Left/Right Arrow (remap-able) "blinks" Player towards that direction (at fixed pixel distance) and cuts the string in its path
  3. Once the button is released, the player "blinks" back to the cursor location prior to the button press
Mapping & Design
MAPPING & DESIGN

Mapping

Basic map mapping should be exactly the same as osu standard, so that an existing osu standard map can be "translated" and played without extra tweak.

Additional "annoyance" objects (eg laser, ootama) can either be scripted for existing maps, or added by mappers for new submissions. The purpose of these additional annoyances are to discourage Player camping at the same spot.

The distance between 2 bullets (or "string length" as referred to from here on) is directly proportional to the length of a note. It'll be easier to visualise by the following figure.



Map Difficulty Settings

HP Drain Rate = same definition as osu standard
Circle Size = Size of bullets (larger bullets reduce the "string length")
Approach Rate = Speed of bullets
Overall Difficulty = same definition as osu standard
Spinners
If there's spinner in Touhosu at all, I can think of 2 ways to do this:
  1. Fast rotating laser (constant rate). Player moves with the cone to stay safe. Player gains more bonus point by staying further away from the centre of rotation.
  2. Random stationary Danmaku filling the screen. Player's Grace circle activates. Free hand movement, grace for bonus points (you can still get hit and lose HP)

NOTE: This post is unfinished.
I saw the video Sakuya ed when I was half way through putting my ideas together. The game mechanism shown in that video is very clean and simple and it made me wonder if the stuff I'm proposing here is too complicated to code. I guess I'll leave this post as is unless people think it's worth digging deeper.
Mithos
632 posts
ed February 2011
My idea favored simplicity and rhythm based movements to the common "Bullets spawn to the beat" thing. Both are decent, and none of our ideas are set in stone. Fixing my idea would be great, but I'll also provide ideas for the normal danmaku game.

My main theory behind this is that this game mode needs to be a rhythm game first. I am all for adding as many danmaku elements as we can, but there really should be some input on the character that is rhythm based. I like the string idea with the paired bullets, but it lacks the insensitive to move much if you are playing for fun instead of for score. Another thing we would be missing with the idea is accuracy. How do we what bullets count towards score, and which ones are not? We can't have 3000x Miss and 1% accuracy for every song.

With my idea, I thought of a slightly different movement plan. The character is still on a fixed plane, but this time it is a horizontal line or curve, which the player can travel along freely. When you tap a directional key, you move over one space. The same bullet patterns are waiting for you when you move over, but the immediate bullet in your way is deactivated if your timing was correct. It's the same game idea as before, but instead of being snapped back to the neutral area, your current location becomes the new neutral. I would imagine that you could pull a pac-man and move from one side of the stage to the other by moving too far one way.

This idea also brings back the potential boss idea. The entity moves around the top part of the stage, and the player gets bonus points (spinner bonus amount, not TOO much) for being in the position to deal damage to it. The closer you are to it, the more of your bullets hit it, and the more points you get for it.

The fixed sections that you can move in are there so people cannot camp. The game knows where to aim so you will always be moving because there is less variables. The screen is filled with bullets that you dodge, but your inputs are based on the music playing. I don't want to have vertical movement because that will alter the timing of which you need to dodge the bullets too much.

Now that I think about this, this is one of the hardest game genres to transform into a rhythm game.

Edit: I now have a visualization of how my idea would work.
JhowM
2,655 posts
ed December 2010
Now you two are missing the point of "danmaku" which is: multiple bullets of multiple types moving at multiple speeds with multiple patterns, AT THE SAME TIME.

The following is just my opinion, I'm not saying "your concept is bad, you should change this and that", just pointing some stuff out.

Mithost: you could achieve that having some other bullets moving diagonally a bit slower, with less space between them or faster and more spaced than the other bullets, but never being on the player's path on the time of the beat so he/she can dodge them while still focusing on the main bullets, for example.

Oinari-sama: mouse control is not good for bullet dodging, especially because of how the speed works for cursor (think about CtB with relax, please do so); constant movement speed = good.
Other thing is bullet size changing: it is not good in ANY way; you should focus on bullet ammount rather than size. Where have you seen a danmaku game with bullet size changing between difficulty levels ?????????? There should be a fixed set of bullets, each with their own sizes and be the same in all maps/diffs (maybe set bullet kind by hitsound/new combo/whatever). You could make use of bigger bullets more frequent, but not turn all bullets into big bullets.

And yeah, putting accuracy there is (almost?) impossible without killing the real point of danmaku.

Oinari-sama wrote: cv50

Each person should feel free to propose their ideas
I agree with this, everyone who have ed this should have their own image of how this could work.
jemhuntr
933 posts
ed February 2012
can't we just base it on beathazard, but call it touhosu!? (although mapping it would be impossible :<)
JhowM
2,655 posts
ed December 2010

JeMhUnTeR wrote: 605c39

can't we just base it on beathazard, but call it touhosu!? (although mapping it would be impossible :<)
That game has very weak gameplay, avoiding bullets is easy, the bullets on the hardest level are less frequent than touhou on easy - it's all just visual effects and enemies to shoot (I don't see music being applied to gameplay in any way there).
Mithos
632 posts
ed February 2011

JhowM wrote: 43266m

Now you two are missing the point of "danmaku" which is: multiple bullets of multiple types moving at multiple speeds with multiple patterns, AT THE SAME TIME.
Not to be mean here, but I think you are missing the point of "rhythm game", which is doing something to the beat of the music. One thing that a lot of people here are missing is that we can't have a game that is danmaku where the bullets are simply spawned on beats. Sure, it would make a nice game (see beat hazard, the touhou modded levels, etc), but it can't be an osu! game mode. It lacks too many things that make a rhythm game a rhythm game. Things like Accuracy, Combos, and actually paying attention to the beat are crucial to any gamemode that will ever go in osu!. I don't want to speak for peppy here, but I honestly think that peppy won't even lift a finger towards making this game mode if it doesn't include the fundamentals of rhythm games.

My idea for a rhythm game combines both games in a 50/50 split, where both games have equal representation, and the game feels like both games. Let me explain. Danmaku games are about dodging bullets and staying alive. Rhythm games are about performing actions to the music that is playing. My idea is about dodging bullets to the music. You still dodge bullets, and you still move to the rhythm. 50/50 split.

One thing that was not shown in the picture was other note types. The main point of them will be to limit certain movement lanes and make it so you have to find safe zones (sound familiar?) without being able to camp. Certain bullets will force you to move right instead of left or vice versa, and the lasers would temporarily limit the ability to access the lane you were in when it started charging. Accuracy will also emulate a sort of "graze" system, where if you do a note perfectly, you would get an extra bonus (kind of like the rainbow 300's in osumania being worth 320 base points instead of 300). On top of that, I was thinking of adding a "deathbombing" system, where you could prevent one combo break (receiving a 100 or 50 instead of a miss) by using a one-per-song bomb attack. The bomb could also be useful for clearing out a few beats worth of bullets if you need time to think. This is the touhou part of everything. The only thing missing is vertical movement and a "focus" feature.
JhowM
2,655 posts
ed December 2010
Your system is fine; the only thing I'm afraid is lack of challenge so it doesn't end up getting boring.
Mithos
632 posts
ed February 2011
Alright. Let's talk about difficulty. The first thing I would like to note is that bullets would generally land on the player at the same time a hitcircle would be clicked, and each hitcircle would equal one bullet to dodge. This is pretty good until we get into streams, where it would become TOO hard to read patterns while constantly moving every 16th note. If we can translate streams (but not short 3-5 note long streams) into another kind of bullet or pattern that gives a similar feel to it without being too difficult, we will be in good shape. Any suggestions are welcome on how we can do that are welcome, because I'm a bit stumped. I guess we could make it so it's just a steady stream of bullets that follows you with it changing direction every quarter or eighth note. Ideas are welcome.

I don't see how it would be dead-easy in harder translations. We bring up the approach rate and the more complex rhythms and bullet patterns that come with hard and insane maps will scale the difficulty themselves. Normal and Easy Difficulties will be easy, sure. We just limit some certain bullets from easy and we introduce them in normals if they get out of hand.
Dolphin
1,167 posts
ed January 2012
About implementing this like what they did in Touhou Rhythm Carnival...

I have played this game, and my least favourite mini-game was VS. Remilia.
It was awkward to play. And it didn't feel like Touhou. It felt like a more advanced version of Taiko or CtB, I'm not sure.
I really liked idea where bullets pop up in beat with the music. That way you have a music-oriented bullet hell game! Feels more like what it should be. :lol:

But then again. This is an opinion on the internet! I doubt anyone would care too much!
Mithos
632 posts
ed February 2011
Dolphin, it would make a great music-oriented danmaku game, but it wouldn't come close to a rhythm game (ie what we are trying to make). I understand that there are some issues with the rhythm heaven thing. We are not trying to emulate it 100%. We are just using it as a base, and solving the problems that come up.
Sakuya Lv9
25 posts
ed May 2012
1. If the pattern is fixed with no variations at all, then it fails. ( the NOT DANMAKU rule )
2. If the rhythm is not required to play the game, then it fails. ( the NOT RHYTHM rule )

Therefore,
1. We need a bunch of bullets with different properties.
2. We need most dodges to be rhythmic.

That's when I realize that there is absolutely no way to do traditional Touhou in osu!.
For Ouendan to osu!standard, it's easy, because it was a rhythm game.
For taiko(tatsujin) to taiko(osu!), it's easy, because it was a rhythm game.
(I don't want to talk about CTB, I never understand it)
For BMS-type to mania, it's easy, because it was a rhythm game.

For Touhou though, we need to tweak it somehow, while keeping the danmaku stuff.
So, what about we just cross the 2 together?
Imagine this, there are danmaku, and hit circles, in the same screen.
You have to evade the danmaku, then move to the hit circles, then hit the C key to earn points.
Yeah, this sounds insane, but what about making the hitcircles, like, 35% as big as the screen?
(I think the only playable difficulties are the 3 star Easy ones, but I still think this might me a good starting point)
(And of course, the hyperdash from CTB might need to appear too)

SPOILER
(I assumed the new "approach circles" approach from the inside and expand until it hit the big circle.)
Oinari-sama
osu! Alumni
3,403 posts
ed July 2010
I actually have another idea, but it was too similar to osu standard so I haven't mentioned it so far. Might as well throw it out here.

Fujiwara no Moukou has an "exploding bullet" attack. Fast forward to 10:56 to see the attack.



In the game, moukou unleashes some magical circles that spawns an exploding bullet after a few second. I was thinking of tweaking that into a usable adaptation for osu standard.

So instead of bullet spawn directly inside the magic circles, we can make the magic circle the ONLY safe place when that particular trap explodes. The magic circle can appear with the same timing like in HD mod, then explode when it's time to hit the beat in osu standard. The "shrapnel" should disappear quicker than in the game obviously or the character will suffer damage in a jumpy map.

This idea was scrapped because it's almost like a skin for osu standard, not a separate game mode. The advantage of course is that it'll be easy to adapt standard map for touhosu mode.

I'll just leave it here, maybe this can help someone to come up with a better idea. :)


@sakuya
Actually I thought about doing the complete opposite to what I posted above too. Making the character earn points by "eating" more bullets. Glad you mentioned yours.
Doodle99
239 posts
ed September 2011
I love that. I think osu will aprove this
theowest
osu! Alumni
6,891 posts
ed January 2009

This is something Tasha quickly scrapped together, so it's all made by him. It's extremely simple and far from a functional game, thus the pre-prototype title. He's actively developing and trying to create this osu! based bulletstorm game, so let's hope for the best.

Unreadable mess, nowhere near what it should look like. I just quickly mapped this on top of djpop's diff to see how it would look. Nice visualization though.
You will hear some osu! notification sounds in this video, so don't get paranoid while watching this.
Oinari-sama
osu! Alumni
3,403 posts
ed July 2010

theowest wrote: tpu


This is something Tasha quickly scrapped together, so it's all made by him. It's extremely simple and far from being a functional game, thus the pre-prototype title. He's actively developing and trying to create this osu! based bulletstorm game, so let's hope for the best.

Unreadable mess, nowhere near what it should look like. I just quickly mapped this on top of djpop's diff to see how it would look. Nice visualization though.
You will hear some osu! notification sounds in this video, so don't get paranoid while watching this.
Wow that's a lot of bullets xD

Nice visualisation. Imagine the "Magical Circle" (refer to my post on previous page) moves around the map like autoplay and the hero has to hide in it all the time...

Can add a Grace bonus for those who dares to venture outside of the Magical Circle lol
Primula_old
Primula_old
I'd prefer something a bit more like Osu! where by interacting with beats causes objects to sprout of which you then dodge.
Eg. Clicking a hitcircle would cause mini circles which sprout from it after a couple seconds, then you go to the next hitcircle and continue on causing a build up of mini circles of which you dodge.

All current modes follow the same sort of logic where your actions follow a beat, but the current idea of what people have with Touhosu (pattern of objects spawn on beat of which you then dodge) does not follow this same logic, because you're dodging a beat which was in the past.
_noone__old
48 posts
ed April 2010
<>
Last edited by _noone__old , edited 1 time in total.
DJKero
231 posts
Here since the beginning
I think Mithost Point of view is one of the most correct ones i've seen so far... Obviously we have to add other kind of bullets and lasers etc, but I think touhosu! should be a RHYTHM BASED Game first of all...

And the concept that Mithost is showing is the closest to it i've seen so far in 3 pages of comments...
TheVileOne
osu! Alumni
8,434 posts
ed March 2010
The video is very close to how I imagine the gamemode to be like. Placed notes will explode into balls that the player must dodge with the cursor. I think drain should be constantly refilling with each ed object. Each time you touch a ball it will remove a chunk of HP. Hit too many balls and you will surely fail.

Surviving each object adds a combo and getting hit will either break your combo or give you less points depending on how much of the ball touches your cursor. A lenient combo break system would increase the variety of scores in the leaderboard and make mod usage more approachable. Your accuracy will be based on the number of times you got hit and how badly those hits were determined. If you make it to the end of the song without getting hit you get a perfect score.

Mods will provide an extra degree of challenge to those who request it. The standard mods would fit very nicely into the gameplay. Hidden would make the balls disappear and the player would have to dodge them without seeing them. Doubletime and flashlight would be exactly the same. Hardrock could make the balls larger or something or the balls could move faster from the center of the note.

The main issue is balancing the scoring system. Adding mods would make this gamemode exceptionally more difficult. It would be very hard to perform well with mods applied. Mods shouldn't make playing the game impossible. It wouldn't be worth the extra bonus.
JhowM
2,655 posts
ed December 2010

TheVileOne wrote: 4cy22

cursor
again, why mouse?
dodging stuff is not good with mouse (think about catching fruits with relax in CtB
TheVileOne
osu! Alumni
8,434 posts
ed March 2010
I guess keyboard would work, but you wont get nearly the freedom of movement as if you moved the character like a pointer on a screen. Whichever is best for gameplay works for me.
[CSGA]Ar3sgice
4,298 posts
ed July 2011
+888

doding danmaku with mouse is much easier than keyboard..
JhowM
2,655 posts
ed December 2010

[CSGA]Ar3sgice wrote: 5a44y

+888

doding danmaku with mouse is much easier than keyboard..
which danmaku game you play with mouse ?w?w?w?w?
Dolphin
1,167 posts
ed January 2012

JhowM wrote: 43266m

[CSGA]Ar3sgice wrote: 5a44y

+888

doding danmaku with mouse is much easier than keyboard..
which danmaku game you play with mouse ?w?w?w?w?
Well there are games like Symphony that are danmaku-esk with cursor movement.
But keyboard controls with 4 directions (8 if you count left-up right-down etc) has much more solid gameplay and controls than mouse.
Mithos
632 posts
ed February 2011

TheVileOne wrote: 4cy22

The video is very close to how I imagine the gamemode to be like. Placed notes will explode into balls that the player must dodge with the cursor. I think drain should be constantly refilling with each ed object. Each time you touch a ball it will remove a chunk of HP. Hit too many balls and you will surely fail.

Surviving each object adds a combo and getting hit will either break your combo or give you less points depending on how much of the ball touches your cursor. A lenient combo break system would increase the variety of scores in the leaderboard and make mod usage more approachable. Your accuracy will be based on the number of times you got hit and how badly those hits were determined. If you make it to the end of the song without getting hit you get a perfect score.

Mods will provide an extra degree of challenge to those who request it. The standard mods would fit very nicely into the gameplay. Hidden would make the balls disappear and the player would have to dodge them without seeing them. Doubletime and flashlight would be exactly the same. Hardrock could make the balls larger or something or the balls could move faster from the center of the note.

The main issue is balancing the scoring system. Adding mods would make this gamemode exceptionally more difficult. It would be very hard to perform well with mods applied. Mods shouldn't make playing the game impossible. It wouldn't be worth the extra bonus.
"Is this a Rhythm Game?" I think that is the only requirement for a potential gamemode in osu!. Sure, the bullets spawn to music, but the player would probably doing the opposite, slightly nudging themselves over every few milliseconds and only watching the aftermath of what appeared before them. Touhou causes ridiculous tunnel vision when playing, and the chance that players will even see what is going on 'rhythmically' above them is zero-to-none.

If you want an example of this, fullscreen tasha's video. Now get a piece of paper roughly the size of your monitor, and cut a circular hole in it with a coin or something. No matter how loud you turn up the music, no matter how many visualizations you have in the background, this is what the player will see when playing.
TheVileOne
osu! Alumni
8,434 posts
ed March 2010
It wouldn't be a rhythm game. It would be a rhythm based game.This is not a major concern of mine. People don't play touhou because of the rhythm, and they would not play this game because of the rhythm.

Also I guess keyboard keys would work. It would be more authentic with Touhou.
Mithos
632 posts
ed February 2011
This is what bothers me though. Tasha's video and the ideas being put around here are amazing super-cool ideas, but most of them don't fit in osu!'s structure at all. Nobody would be able to say "That's a rhythm based game!" if you turned off the BGM on this game mode. By using the hitbursts=bullet spread style, we have to throw out the only mechanics that hold osu!'s gamemodes together. BPM no longer means anything. Accuracy would be over-complicated at best to implement. Combos? Forget them. I'm not usually pessimistic, but this design is not a rhythm game, not even the slightest!
-Seren-
447 posts
ed April 2011

theowest wrote: tpu


This is something Tasha quickly scrapped together, so it's all made by him. It's extremely simple and far from a functional game, thus the pre-prototype title. He's actively developing and trying to create this osu! based bulletstorm game, so let's hope for the best.

Unreadable mess, nowhere near what it should look like. I just quickly mapped this on top of djpop's diff to see how it would look. Nice visualization though.
You will hear some osu! notification sounds in this video, so don't get paranoid while watching this.
this kind of really hard to dodge.
TheVileOne
osu! Alumni
8,434 posts
ed March 2010
I don't care if it's related to the rhythm or not. If peppy adds it, it would be a unique flare to osu! and I can guarantee people would play it. Imagine how many new players would osu! just because it has a Touhou-esque game in it. If you can translate the game nicely, it would be a big plus to osu! as a game.
Dolphin
1,167 posts
ed January 2012

TheVileOne wrote: 4cy22

I don't care if it's related to the rhythm or not. If peppy adds it, it would be a unique flare to osu! and I can guarantee people would play it. Imagine how many new players would osu! just because it has a Touhou-esque game in it. If you can translate the game nicely, it would be a big plus to osu! as a game.
You got a valid point. All I am hoping for really is a rhythm-oriented game mode that works kinda like Danmakufu.
Also it would be nice if it got its own editor where you can adjust bullet-type, amount, direction etc. To keep complexity and variation.

An issue would be having Touhosu-specific maps, people would want to make these, but for these to be ranked we need to make a ranking criteria for it.
But nearly all Shmups are ridiculously difficult. So where do we limit the difficulty for Easy for instance? How hard should it be? How easy should it be?
We need to know this, and I think basing the diff-spread after Touhou would be a general bad idea, since the difficulty curve on Touhou is steep.

We also need to know what should be allowed and disallowed. If you're inexperienced and want to create an Insane difficulty by basing it of Touhou Lunatic, you might think that any pattern and bullet density/speed is allowed, but that's not quite true. There are always limitations.
Mithos
632 posts
ed February 2011
I guess if you can't beat them, them. I hope my idea still stands, but I'm going to move on to trying to get a rhythm fighting game made for osu! instead. For this idea however, one thing I would want to incorporate are small things that really mix the game and the song together, in the same way osu!'s menu and games like rhythm heaven do very well.

One thing I would like to see with the 'main idea' is a clear indication of BPM in the character. Just a simple movement like moving slightly side to side, have the visible hitbox/grazebox have a pulse effect sort of like the menu animation, just something. Wait... I have an idea with graze, just a small one.

Graze is usually a constant stream of bonus points you get for staying ridiculously close to a danmaku. To help with the rhythm aspect of the game, I just had the idea of making graze only active on the beats of a song, or reward more points for grazing during a beat and less during offbeats, creating more of a 'curve' than a steady stream of points.

If the changing size of danmaku's didn't affect the hitboxes or gameplay, I would suggest that they pulse to the BPM as well. I think they could still have animations if they were done right.

Last thing to note right now, has anyone made a pippi touhou sprite?
PROGUY
osu! Alumni
936 posts
ed October 2010
I just thought of a suggestion for the scoring system for Danmaku (I'm calling it that from now on, and I don't care what you gays call it.) and a few others below.

For every circle that spawns bullets from its origin in time, it would also spawn a point item that adds to the score when collected. These items will also appear at the end of the slider (not in-between or at the beginning). I'm not sure about how this would work for spinners though - maybe have it spawn at a random location after completion of the spinner?

Also note that these items should despawn after about two seconds (depending on OD?) as a challenge. Maybe more for spinners since they're random.

In the results, the final score should be = (Items Collected / Total Items) * 1,000,000.

And no, grazing bullets do nothing to your score.


Other suggestions:
  1. BPM x Slider Velocity = Actual speed of bullets (but it should have a limit of sort so it doesn't result in an instant massacre)
  2. Player's speed = Like CTB, it should be fixed at a certain point
  3. Approach circles will appear as visible as possible in the background to indicate the spawning of bullets in that particular position
  4. When the song ends (or the last note of the beatmap), the game should only end once there are no remaining bullets on-screen and remaining point items are collected/despawned.
Starz0r
197 posts
ed March 2012
A better idea on how Touhosu! could work is this:

Dolphin
1,167 posts
ed January 2012

Starz0r wrote: 41313g

A better idea on how Touhosu! could work is this:

Dolphin
1,167 posts
ed January 2012

Starz0r wrote: 41313g

A better idea on how Touhosu! could work is this:

You did the YouTube thing wrong, its 
[youtube]LXktr7MLicY[/youtube]
You have to put the Video Code, not the URL.

SPOILER

Someone delete my previous post, it broke and I can't interact with it for some reason :L
PROGUY
osu! Alumni
936 posts
ed October 2010
@Starz0r: ...You didn't read the entire topic before you posted that, didn't you?


On-topic and in addition to my previous post, maybe the number of lives would also affect the score aside from just point items.

So right now the formula is = ( (Items Collected / Total Items) * 700,000 ) * ( (Lives Left / Max Lives) * 300,000 )

...or at least something like that.
Mithos
632 posts
ed February 2011
It seems too easy to get max score without graze bonus.
stickydog
21 posts
ed July 2012
x
Last edited by stickydog , edited 1 time in total.
Graphite Edge
107 posts
ed April 2011
+1
yoshilove
yoshilove
~ <3

Although it is very old,
There was such a thing.
There was a game to Danmaku the BMS. *Danmaku(Cartridge? Curtain of fire?)

※not Touhou, this is another game.
There is a place that is similar.

(but JP lung)
(An animation was not found in Youtube. )
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm130707
http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~VG5M-OBT/otama.html
DJNightmare
882 posts
ed February 2009

Starz0r wrote: 41313g

A better idea on how Touhosu! could work is this:

I ain't lady
And no, you don't sound like a man who has ordered a pizza.
/me runs
Indra145
54 posts
ed July 2011
It will be something like this?

SPOILER
Jiraymin
17 posts
ed September 2012
I really think that the "Starz0r" example is a good idea :) .

But , well ... i think it should be fun if the player press a key to shoot the enemies in rhythm .
For example, the enemy always throw bullet in all the map according to the beatmap ; and the player do the same but only on a vertical line , but, few time the player must press a key to make a powerfull attack (indicated by something like ... color change)
I hope that you understand what I mean :oops:

( also , i don't read all pages of the topic, so ... tell me if something better is proposed )
- Marco -
7,608 posts
ed December 2011
looks like peppy is slowly working on this :)
Trash Boat
4,403 posts
ed April 2013
i really like to this idea, actually i approve it, but i can't find my stars or votes. i should have at least 2
- Marco -
7,608 posts
ed December 2011

battler077 wrote: 1g553q

i really like to this idea, actually i approve it, but i can't find my stars or votes. i should have at least 2
You get 2 stars when you buy er i hate that moda >.> everyone should have the ability to vote...
Trash Boat
4,403 posts
ed April 2013
somebody told me that when somebody gives you er, the gifter get the votes, not the receiver. that could be the reason
Heinzen
149 posts
ed October 2010
Beat hazard is a pretty fun game. A rhythm bullet hell. I'd love to see it working over here, but how would a ranking system work for that?

ing it
Taadashi
230 posts
ed January 2011

Heinzen wrote: 5b1j72

Beat hazard is a pretty fun game. A rhythm bullet hell. I'd love to see it working over here, but how would a ranking system work for that?

ing it
Perhaps something like graze points in touhou? Another idea could be to subtract points each time the player's been hit.
Trash Boat
4,403 posts
ed April 2013

Taadashi wrote: 311l4s

Perhaps something like graze points in touhou? Another idea could be to subtract points each time the player's been hit.
based on that Touhosu! should be amazingly impossible(difficult)
Taadashi
230 posts
ed January 2011

battler077 wrote: 1g553q

Taadashi wrote: 311l4s

Perhaps something like graze points in touhou? Another idea could be to subtract points each time the player's been hit.
based on that Touhosu! should be amazingly impossible(difficult)
Well I do expect it to be somewhere close to touhou ranging from beginner to lunatic. Also I expect it to use mods such as hidden or fl to boost the score. :P
Dexus
982 posts
ed July 2009

marcostudios wrote: g181c

You get 2 stars when you buy er i hate that moda >.> everyone should have the ability to vote...
People that are ing the game have the right to vote what happens. It only makes sense, right?
Luna
2,354 posts
ed November 2010

marcostudios wrote: g181c

looks like peppy is slowly working on this :)
What's your source for that? I can't seeing any indication of a dev actually working on this.
Trash Boat
4,403 posts
ed April 2013

Luna wrote: b2w1p

What's your source for that? I can't seeing any indication of a dev actually working on this.
there is a thread in GD with a video that may depict a bit of Touhosu!. i didnt see it yet because... 1 hr.. next
Oinari-sama
osu! Alumni
3,403 posts
ed July 2010

battler077 wrote: 1g553q

Luna wrote: b2w1p

What's your source for that? I can't seeing any indication of a dev actually working on this.
there is a thread in GD with a video that may depict a bit of Touhosu!. i didnt see it yet because... 1 hr.. next

Fastforward to 43:30. Peppy mentioned about "the touhou mode" around 43:58.
EDIT: I should really preview before posting orz
TakuMii
1,874 posts
ed October 2009
He's not working on it at the moment. What he said just tells us that it's only in proof-of-concept stage and it'd be a while until this comes into fruition.
FireFoxZX
205 posts
ed April 2013
love it+possible ideas=be able to shoot the spinners
Trash Boat
4,403 posts
ed April 2013
peppy, i suggest you implement this mode as fast as you can, because a new rhythm game threatens to end your reign of popularity

Myke B
1,074 posts
ed April 2012

Trash Boat wrote: w6xj

peppy, i suggest you implement this mode as fast as you can, because a new rhythm game threatens to end your reign of popularity

Their open beta is tomorrow, but their forums isn't available at all - is that normal?
uzzi
786 posts
ed September 2012

Trash Boat wrote: w6xj

peppy, i suggest you implement this mode as fast as you can, because a new rhythm game threatens to end your reign of popularity

Yo they spelling 'coming' wrong on their website.
Myke B
1,074 posts
ed April 2012

- [ U z z I ] - wrote: 6z1fl

Trash Boat wrote: w6xj

peppy, i suggest you implement this mode as fast as you can, because a new rhythm game threatens to end your reign of popularity

Yo they spelling 'coming' wrong on their website.
Volumax is confirmed comming soon.
TakuMii
1,874 posts
ed October 2009

Myke B wrote: 42o5i

Their open beta is tomorrow, but their forums isn't available at all - is that normal?
Their forum is available - but no one is there.
deadbeat
osu! Alumni
9,218 posts
ed June 2009

Trash Boat wrote: w6xj

peppy, i suggest you implement this mode as fast as you can, because a new rhythm game threatens to end your reign of popularity
or maybe, you try help instead of telling him to hurry up :/
also take discussion of that game to the video games forum, not here
Mira-san
1,038 posts
ed May 2012
Tiem to .

- [ U z z I ] - wrote: 6z1fl

It's just a ripoff.
Kayla
259 posts
ed August 2013
volumax isnt cute at all. no moe blobs. i dont it. they just stole catch the beat and flipped it sideways. it also has ugly smoke everywhere. its really very ugly and not fun to look at.
Soulg
575 posts
ed February 2013
+1 good idea please implement
Seijiro
osu! Alumni
3,438 posts
ed April 2013

- [ U z z I ] - wrote: 6z1fl

Trash Boat wrote: w6xj

peppy, i suggest you implement this mode as fast as you can, because a new rhythm game threatens to end your reign of popularity

Yo they spelling 'coming' wrong on their website.
Just...What the hell is this?
I'll be able too, to take all peppy's work and change some graphics....
I bet this game will make a veeeery short life (personal opinion). I even tried it (to say it better "I tried to try it") but i couldn't install it cause my graphic card isn't powerful enough...yeah...nice game....
logon13
3 posts
ed August 2013
Is there still a chance touhosu is going to made. Im confused from the last few posts on this thread
Dolphin
1,167 posts
ed January 2012

logon13 wrote: d6e4d

Is there still a chance touhosu is going to made. Im confused from the last few posts on this thread
Mira-san
1,038 posts
ed May 2012
Still waiting...
Chamelo
432 posts
ed July 2013

logon13 wrote: d6e4d

Is there still a chance touhosu is going to made. Im confused from the last few posts on this thread
There is, just you wait. :)

Creating new mode is not easy. Just saying.
kanocchi
355 posts
ed February 2013
i was high sorry
Last edited by kanocchi , edited 1 time in total.
Ridd_old_1
Ridd_old_1
i hope it will comes in 2014 D:
[ Nep ]
140 posts
ed December 2012

Stop Trance wrote: 44g5n

the idea nesecite permission of ZUN, peppy send mensagge to ZUN for copyright, is complicate? yeah D:
Is not necessary the permission of ZUN for create this game mode for osu xD peppy can only take the idea from Touhou and use it for the new game mode, like he did with Osu! Tatakae Ouendan for made osu!. Taking the general idea of a game you can create a new game with your own ideas to improve the game.
The permission of the Copyright of Touhou is necessary if peppy want to add some original stuff of Touhou in osu like characters or another things allowed only in Touhou.

Anyway... this game mode be implemented in osu.... some day, at least that i think ;-;
Trash Boat
4,403 posts
ed April 2013
this thread didnt ed the page 16 yet?
Hestia-
271 posts
ed June 2010
Firstly, saying only + or arguing over another rhythm game that has nothing to do with Touhosu! is a good way to get this thread locked.

As many people have said, the trick to this mode is keeping both the rhythm game feel of osu! and the insanity of bullet hells. Here is my suggestion: There needs to be the ability to shoot bullets as otherwise people only focus on dodging which has less rhythm and shooting allows you to get score. You can have the character automatically fire (or if you hold fire button) at a rhythm determined by the beatmap. There can be lots of enemies that pop up like fairies and spirits popping up according to the position of the notes in the original beatmap, but can come from edges of the screen too. Having enemies would make sure that people focus on something other than their character, and not just a boss in the center that you have to stay under to get max points. Personally I don't like the idea of grazing giving score (I don't like this in Touhou either >_>) and it makes more sense to have a combo gained by killing enemies. This would be more like a standard touhou stage or standard stage combined with Danmakufu because there would be lots of bullets plus enemies. Also it would be cool to have an 'All Clear' thing on beatmaps after you 1cc them.

Another difficulty brought up is making sure that the autoconverter would be able interesting patterns-- Sakuya Lv9 even suggests not implementing an autoconverter at all. I disagree with Sakuya, as the whole point of extra modes is being able to play all the songs in a different mode. Peppy might as well make an entirely different game if you couldn't use the already created beatmaps. Of course, Touhosu! specific beatmaps would be much better for this mode like other mode specific beatmaps are better for their respective categories.

An example of something sort of like this could be the first boss in 140: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aN_aTIWQ81s
Yes this game is really easy and it shoots too slow. Also saying that an idea is bad because it's too easy doesn't make sense because peppy can adjust this very easily by making it have more bullets & there will be multiple difficulty settings for maps anyway.
BlackMidKnight
182 posts
ed March 2010
Concerning about the combo, there is a game in mobile called shogun (which is kinda similar as touhou) in which in order to gain a multiplier (in this game, it is term as "stealing your enemy's energy") you need to be nearer, but not to close, to the foe's bullets to gain a certain addition to your multiplier in this case one bullet is equal to plus one.

Here's the mechanics I've explained lately presented in the video below:
Just skip to 0:38
Trash Boat
4,403 posts
ed April 2013
i just had a wonderful idea about how Touhosu! could be. it's osu! with autoplay, but each hit circle clicked fires a circle wave of danmakus. this also applies for the end(and the start maybe) of the sliders, the slider tics(maybe the reverse arrow too) and the spinners(but only after its cleared, then it will fire danmakus from the centre). i think that the cursor will be also a target to dodge. the speed of the danmaku waves may vary accord to the song. what do you think?
Krunschy
27 posts
ed December 2012
As a (former) Audiosurf player I have to mention a big issue for me which comes with the concept of moving in order to hit/dodge incoming barriers or in this case bullets. It is the simple fact that you have to act before the actual beat occurs, making it kind of failure in the rhythm part of a rhythm game in my opinion. Alternatively the bullets could come in a little bit delayed, so you'd have to move to the beat to dodge them, but this would be pretty weird.
Of course osu! itself is a lot about moving, but you still have to click with the beat, making you somehow part of the music, like if you were playing an instrument.
This is just my humble opinion though and I have to it that CtB and Audiosurf are pretty successful and therefore enjoyable to some despite this fact.
Trash Boat
4,403 posts
ed April 2013
just in case, get an idea from the rave party version of this skin
t/45689?hilit=konata
BPChingu
157 posts
ed April 2014
The rules in Touhosu! is you must shoot the enemy in time with the beat and if you got shot or shot the enemy offbeat is considered a miss or 100/50 and the mods are just the same as other modes.
Michiiii-
46 posts
ed September 2013
Peppy said something about it in his presentation
deadbeat
osu! Alumni
9,218 posts
ed June 2009

Synxx3 wrote: 4l5322

Peppy said something about it in his presentation
son he had already confirmed touhosu long before that japan expo in
Sea_Food
484 posts
ed September 2012

deadbeat wrote: 819

Synxx3 wrote: 4l5322

Peppy said something about it in his presentation
son he had already confirmed touhosu long before that japan expo in
Confirmed yes, but in our lifetime, Maybe?
ToriSW_
63 posts
ed July 2013
Thread was created 5 yrs ago... I dont think its going to happen
Maxis
151 posts
ed May 2013

TheLPerSteve wrote: 651k48

Thread was created 5 yrs ago... I dont think its going to happen
Like the posts directly above state...peppy already confirmed this will be in osu! one day.
ToriSW_
63 posts
ed July 2013

Maxis wrote: m6t5r

TheLPerSteve wrote: 651k48

Thread was created 5 yrs ago... I dont think its going to happen
Like the posts directly above state...peppy already confirmed this will be in osu! one day.
I know he did, but his last post on this thread was also 5 yrs ago (i've only read the first page of this topic,so excuse me if he replied again)
Im not really sure if he still want to apply this, and when yes when.
Heftig_DELETED
Heftig_DELETED
It's coming at the beginning of next year! :) HYPE HYPE HYPE
seasonS
seasonS

Heftig wrote: g1s6i

It's coming at the beginning of next year! :) HYPE HYPE HYPE
Is it really?
I know Volumax has already showed us the progress on their danmaku mode. And I'm surprised it's coming since I haven't seen any progress.
[ Pustules ]
103 posts
ed March 2013
yes fkn please!
AR10 Only
110 posts
ed January 2014
could be fun :oops:
warspite
6 posts
ed June 2013
Since I didn't feel like reading 17 pages to see What has, or has not been suggested, some of my ideas might already be suggested.
Anyway,here's my take on it!


Bullet spawning
SPOILER
Hitcircles
-Bullets spawn in the top quarter of the screen, based on horizontal position
-Random amount of bullets (Depending on diffeculty)
-Random bullet direction (full 360°?)
-Varying bullet speeds (margin based on BPM)
-Streams Shoot a bullet aimed at your current position,

Sliders
-Spawns an enemy on the start and the end of every slider (Again, top quarter of the screen)
-Enemies move at a set speed (based on BPM)
-Enemies move randomly throughout the top half of the screen (and go off-screen after a set amount of time (based on diffeculty))
-Enemies have a different attack pattern (and sprite) based on hitsound (random, aimed, in a circle, straight down, ect.)
-Reversearrows shoot a bullet at your current position (Like streams)

Spinners
-Shoots bullets in a spiral from the center of the screen
-Turning speed based on BPM
-Amount of bullet streams and bullet density per stream based on diffeculty
-Fades in so you have time to react (fade-in speed based on approach rate)

Combo / Scoring
SPOILER
-Enemies that are killed will spawn a proportionate amount of point pickups (that drop down)
-Amount of points dropped is based on enemy type and how long it took you to kill it
-You get a very small amount af points for every bullet that misses you within a certain area around you (area is based on diffeculty and combo)
-Combo builds up when you kill an enemy (also nets you some points)
-Combo breaks if you get hit
-The higher the combo, the more damage you do (incerments whenever you would get a comboburst)

Lifebar
SPOILER
-Drains slowly over time
-Drains when you are hit
-Fills up if you kill an enemy
-Fills up a little bit when collecting points

Bombs
SPOILER
-Bombs spawn in a random location whenever there is a pause moment in the song
-Start out with 1 bomb
-Bombs stack up to 3
-When used, a bomb will destroy all enemys and bullets currently on screen (no points awarded)

Mods
SPOILER
Easy mode
-3 Lives
-Slower lifedrain
-More life recovery
-Less bullets
-Less enemy health
-Slower enemies
-Longer fade-in for spinners

No fail
-Self explanatory

Half time
-Self explanatory

Hardrock
-Opposite of easy mode

Sudden death
-Can't get hit

Perfect
-Can't get hit
-Collect all point drops
-Kill all enemies before they go off-screen
-No bombs

Speedup/Nightcore
-Self explanatory

Hidden
-Bullets dissappear in a certain radius around your character
-Area increases with combo

Flashlight
-Can only see a certain area around you
-Area decreases with combo

Relax
-Auto targeting

Auto pilot
- Score drops "home in" on you

Auto
-Self explanatory

Misc
SPOILER
-Accuracy is based on enemies spawned vs enemies killed & bullets shot vs enemies hit
-Everything marked as "random" should be fixed per beatmap/diffeculty for consistany and fairness.

Thanks to everyone who managed to read my enormous wall of text.
I've probably spend way too much time on this then I should, but it was fun thinking of all the game mechanics, so time well spend I guess.

Feel free to criticize/expand on my ideas.
TheVileOne
osu! Alumni
8,434 posts
ed March 2010
I'm surprised this idea is still alive. It would be a nice thing to have indeed.

I don't know about having enemies in the game. I mean it's supposed to be about the rhythm. There's plenty of actual touhou games if you want to fight boss battles and they usually take much longer than the average TV Size map.
woodrow kelvin
6 posts
ed July 2013
good ^u^
Mira-san
1,038 posts
ed May 2012
Heh. Still up for this.
Touhou
201 posts
ed January 2014
Is this ever going to happen? I Hope so.
Nyxa
848 posts
ed October 2013
I doubt it. Touhou and osu aren't exactly compatible.

Mainly because osu is full of whiners who can't handle retrying a bit
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